[flash]

ok - time to get it out on the track



there are 2 days open sat and sun august 26-27 at the Streets of Willow - this is a geat 1.8 mile track, that is more technical than high speed, ut it's still fast, which is perfect for your first track day



both days is $250 - one day is $145



i am planning on just the one day, and that day being saturday - we would need to be there by 8am - it will go to about 5 - you will get a total of about 2.5 hours of track time (this is a lot - you will be dead tired at the end)



there is also a $10 per day gate fee



lunch is not provided, but there are plenty of places very close, and we will have time to go and get food



instructors will be provided - i have arranged for us to have our own little group with our own instructors, at no aditional charge - this is largely because i am going to play "pointman" and make all the arrangements for us, thereby making their life simpler



you will need an SA snell 95 or newer helmet - MA is ok too - there are no rentals or loaners there - contact me if this is a problem - i may be able to work something out for you



cabs must have a "roll bar"



passengers will be allowed in the afternoon sessions at the sole discretion of the instructor, after taking the "ride along test"



no other specific vehicular requirements beyond the normal "it's safe" kind of stuff



please contact me via email (not PMs) at flash@design1racing.com



this will fill fast - do not delay - i expect to have to close this out by 7-24 to guarantee our placement

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[rustech]

I'M IN!

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[josephsc]

I am already planning on being there in my 944 -- this is the "Redline Track Events" guys, right? You can definitely put me down for at least one-day (Saturday), I may stick around for Sunday -- not sure yet.



$145/day is silly cheap! Normally I expect to pay ~$200/day (plus gas, tires, brake pads, things that break....)



I'm also signed up for Friday, August 18 at Buttonwillow in case anyone's thinking about more track days. Plus July 21 and 24 at Thunderhill, hoping to hit Sears Point on Sep 9/10 and/or Laguna Seca on Sep 16/17....

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[orphanowner]

If anyone can't make the Aug event or wants to run on the big track at Willow Springs. The Motorsports Club and Evosport are having their track day this Saturday, July 22. The big track is very challenging track and billed as the fastest track in the west. Two long fast straighaways and 9 turns with unobstructed run off make this a great track to learn on.



These events are lot of fun and the organizers provide breakfast and a very nice catered lunch, plus TONS of track time with usually only 20-25 cars! In-car one on one instruction is offered and they usually have 3 run groups so everyone can feel comfortable running at their own pace. I have participated as an instructor with this group for over 3 years and have to say these guys get it. Safe events, and lots of fun witih good eats! There is usually some pretty exotic cars as well as the usual Porsches and BMW's but they never have a crowd, which equals TONS of track time.



I believe the cost is $395.00 but check with Brad to be sure. FYI, the open testing cost at Willow which applies to RACE CARS ONLY (you cannot run a street car at the big Willow Springs track unless you are part of an organized event) is $275 and you don't get eats or instruction.



If anyone is interested, contact Brad at 888.520.9971 or PM me for more details or questions.

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[flash]

at the risk of sidetracking my own thread, that 395 is for 2 days, right? if it's for one day, that would be the highest i have seen for a one day event by a long shot - most of them i've seen are about 200-250, including meals and instructors - what, besides the small group, makes it different?

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[orphanowner]

[quote name='flash' date='Jul 18 2006, 01:30 PM']at the risk of sidetracking my own thread, that 395 is for 2 days, right?  if it's for one day, that would be the highest i have seen for a one day event by a long shot - most of them i've seen are about 200-250, including meals and instructors - what, besides the small group, makes it different?

[right][post="24223"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]







Flash, I didn’t mean to hijack this thread; I was only giving an option to anyone interested in running the big Willow Springs track and couldn’t or didn’t want to run the Streets event in August.



With that said, I don't know any groups that offer driving events at the big Willow Springs track for less than $395 that an INEXPERIENCED driver can run in a street car and receive one-on-one instruction.



That means that if the entrant would like, they can have an instructor ride along in each session. There is no faster way to become proficient on the track than having a personal driving instructor giving a turn by turn critique, pointing out turn in points, exit lines and explaining which turns are early and late apex and the differences between the two. This all adds up to a safer and more satisfying time than simply calling it an open practice and letting the newbie learn on their own. Willow springs management doesn't allow drivers without a competition license to take part in open practice sessions (big track) or club events unless they are part of a driver's school session within the event, which usually requires an extra fee.



With the liability shifted from the track to the event organizers, events that I'm familiar with will not allow a bone stock street car out on the big Willow track without passing tech inspection which usually requires at minimum, steel lug nuts, 5 point racing harness, fire extinguisher SA 95 or later helmet and an under car inspection.



It's all about quality and quantity of the track time. The Evosport events provide more track time than two days worth of club racing, a standard track day or D.E. event. Figure each group will get 3.5 hours of track time with 12-15 cars on the track at once. This is huge. The small groups allow open passing and the large track, even with 20 cars on the track at once. No wasted parade laps lined up behind a group of slower cars waiting for the passing zone so the faster cars can pass.



I find with track time, you get what you pay for...

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[josephsc]

3.5 hours of track time in one day, with 3 run groups? Doesn't add up.... It must be over two days, right? The most I've seen is 2.5 hours of track time plus half an hour of "open track" -- that's with 3 run groups, the track getting hot from 9am-5pm. But if you get 3.5hours of seat time, then it's well worth the price -- though I wouldn't want to do 3.5 hours in one day....



FWIW, I generally consider 100 minutes of seat time for ~$170-$200 pretty standard. Though there are events where you can get 150-180 minutes for the same price, but that'll generally a weekday event. The event organizers for Flash's event seems to be running 3 run groups -- I'm expecting to see close to 150 minutes for $145 -- still a bargain, especially on a weekend.



In my opinion, one-on-one instruction is nice, but you quickly get to the point of diminishing return. I remember the first time I took a car out on the track, I hit the point of information overload around lunch time. I couldn't digest any more information -- I simply needed seat time to practice.



20 cars per run group on a 1.8mile course is a little packed though. The beginner group could start feeling like the 405 in rush hour traffic (maybe two point-by passing zones at Streets of Willow?). On the other hand, it's definitely fun to have a couple others cars around you to chase or be chased by. Just remember to follow your own line and be courteous.

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[flash]

steve - no worries - might be good for another new thread though



at any rate, trackquest, speed ventures, and redline have all put together events on the big track - they all have been well under 300 for one day - all have had instructors for one-on one (though i can't imagine it was for everybody and not for all day) - all usually give about 2.5 hrs of seat time per day - all usually have 3 groups, and about 50 spots total



i looked into this myself a while back - they were actually quite wiling to let me rent the track - the track, complete with fire, ambulance, and even figuring in insurance was about 6k per day - at 395 a head, and at a conservative 45 people, that's 17775 - that had better be one heck of a lunch - otherwise, i see a bit of prefiteering going on - even at 50 bucks a head for food, the remaining 9525 is a nice tidy profit for a day - even if you paid the instructors a couple hundred bucks each, you'd still make at least 6-7 grand - perhaps i should consider this line of work myself - i don't begrudge a guy making a buck, but that seems out of the norm



maybe i'm way off base, maybe i'm missing something here, and maybe this is a truly unique event, but as somebody who has produced events for a living, the numbers sure don't add up to me yet

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[orphanowner]

[quote name='flash' date='Jul 18 2006, 05:49 PM']steve - no worries - might be good for another new thread though



at any rate, trackquest, speed ventures, and redline have all put together events on the big track - they all have been well under 300 for one day - all have had instructors for one-on one (though i can't imagine it was for everybody and not for all day) - all usually give about 2.5 hrs of seat time per day - all usually have 3 groups, and about 50 spots total



i looked into this myself a while back - they were actually quite wiling to let me rent the track - the track, complete with fire, ambulance, and even figuring in insurance was about 6k per day - at 395 a head, and at a conservative 45 people, that's 17775 - that had better be one heck of a lunch - otherwise, i see a bit of prefiteering going on - even at 50 bucks a head for food, the remaining 9525 is a nice tidy profit for a day - even if you paid the instructors a couple hundred bucks each, you'd still make at least 6-7 grand - perhaps i should consider this line of work myself - i don't begrudge a guy making a buck, but that seems out of the norm



maybe i'm way off base, maybe i'm missing something here, and maybe this is a truly unique event, but as somebody who has produced events for a living, the numbers sure don't add up to me yet

[right][post="24244"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



I post here of another event that I've personally had great experiences with and offer first hand that it was well run and appeared to satisfy it's participants and the responses are predictably negative. I don't profit one bit from this, I simply offered that it was a well run event and if someone was interested in catered meals, top notch instruction, and almost unlimited track time at WSIR, this event could provide all that. I have absolutely nothing to gain here and have no vested interest in either or any event.



Having instructed at Tracquest (alsmost bought the West Coast operations from Todd), Speedventures, PCA, POC and many others, I can offer my experience and insight as to what you get for your money and comment on the value proposition of each one. There is no comparison in running the Streets of Willow with 50 participants and running WSIR, the big track, with less than 25 cars on the track. If you crave seat time with minimal distractions and many clean laps on a world class high speed road race track, you have to expect to pay for the privilege.



I'm sure either event will be loads of fun...

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[flash]

i wasn't being negative - the numbers just don't add up to me - the pricing i've seen on the events at the big track have all been a lot less with the other providers - other than this one, i have yet to see one over 300 for one day - all i can think is that the food must be excellent, and they have a full time instructor for each participant - that would be good, and worth the money to me



i'm also not trying to compare streets with the big track - the companies out there have all done the big track too - as first timers though, i think these guys are better served on the small track, which is why i chose it for this event



any track event is a blast - we all know that



i think you should start a new thread for this event - it might draw well

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[flash]

i'm going to be making the arrangements this week - who else wants in?



so far, i have dj, myself, ron, eric, and joseph



come on - time to get out there

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[flash]

it's 7/25, and we are up to 6 now, and i am going to be submitting my list today



on the subject of the necessary helmets, i was unable to get 2 of my helmets updated to use as loaners - the requirement is snell 2000 or newer - mine are significantly older than that, and cannot be reconditioned to bring them up to date (that was apparantly a pipe dream)



however, i have a couple of links for you for very inexpensive helmets (starting at $46.99):



this one is a snell 2000 - $46.99

http://www.newenough.com/hjc_cs12_solid_helmet_page.htm



this one is a snell 2000 - $72

http://www.newenough.com/hjc_cl14_metall...t_page.htm



this one is a snell 2005 - $112

http://www.newenough.com/hjc_cl14_metall...t_page.htm



i wil contact everyone later today with specifics

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[flash]

my bad - for other events, the requirement is snell 2000 - for this event, the requirement is still only snell 95

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[rustech]

Good to know, because I'm good to go...with my old helmets.

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[flash]

and we are up to 7 now - i am building the info email now - it will go out tonight with all the necessary and pertinent info, including how to pay for this

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[flash]

up to 8 now - this is going to be great



i have money from everybody but bill and tom (though admittedly i have not checked my mailbox for checks since friday)



i will be calling and giving them a final head count, and taking care of all the arrangements, this week (he's going to hold off that long) - but it will definitely be done before i leave for parade



anybody else interested, get ahold of me asap

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[flash]

finally heard from everybody - will be making the final arrangements tomorrow



woohoo!

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[rustech]

I'm so excited to be going to my first track day that I decided to refinish my old helmet to match my car. I even had some old stickers lying around that I slapped on to make it look official.<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> I'm sure I'll be getting a check in the mail.<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Some pics for amusement purposes.

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[rustech]

Here are a couple videos of someone (John Wurth?) on the Steets of Willow Springs in the same direction we'll be traveling for those of you who haven't seen the track yet. He's not the best driver, but it gives an idea as to the characteristics of the track.



http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/item/pr...john-wurth.html



http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/item/pr...john-wurth.html





...and others here:

http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/album/v...samond,+ca.html

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[josephsc]

Thanks for posting the videos. I wish we could see his gear selection a little better (esp the Corvette one). I'm guessing the course can be done completely in 3rd and 4th. 5th might be nice at the end of the esses and the main straight -- but I'm going to keep my gear selection simple to begin with.

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