[happysails2you]

Hi guys,



After reading lots of posts about M030, Koni's, and sway bars, it's time for me to get serious. Santa's coming and I asked him for a new suspension for Baby (92 cab) as this winter's project. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Not wanting to leave it to his elves' humorous imaginations, I'm hoping that you can give me some ideas for the list.



Baby's my fun weekend car, not for the track or even autocross (yet!), so I want a comfortable (not overly stiff, nor mushy) ride. Everthing I've replaced so far have been stock Porsche/Bosch parts, and I'm generally trying to keep it original. But on the suspension, I've seen lots of your comments and wonder what would make the most sense in this area. My mechanic said it's time to replace most everything on the suspension -- rubber parts are worn, shocks and other metal parts that are 15 years old should be replaced. I have no problems with the car's current handling, although the right side in the back is slightly lower than the left side. I also don't want to invest more than is needed. I have no plans to ever sell the car, but I would like to make it attractive in that event.



So, what would you put on my Santa's Suspension Wish List?



Thanks in advance for your help!



Cheers,

Kathy

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[968workaholic]

M030 Sways are deffinetly the way to go without sacrificing ride quality. If you decide to get M030 front shocks and koni yellows for the rear, most people are satisfied with it. Design 1 Upper and Lower cross braces will take away the cowl shake that the cab's have. I would say that is a good start for not being to stiff or too soft.

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[Rudolf968]

Hey Kathy,

I'm in exactly the same situation like you. After a lot of reading next package seems to be the best for me :

Front and rear M30 sway bars with delrin bushings, rear with KLA spherical drop links and front with KLA support braket

For our cabs : strut brace and lower chassis brace : see RS Barn

For the shocks and springs --> most of the shocks are gas filled and at the rear these are a little harsh for street use. Best with gas seems to be KW - V3. But I'm still waiting at the proposition of Flash, as he is testing and finalizing at this moment an adjustable hydraulic shock for the rear.

I propose progressive springs (Hypercoil or Intrax) without helpersprings. The helpers have no real function for riding. In the rear I'm hoping to get rid of the torsion bars, thus only coil-overs with an adapted spring rate.

For the spring rates : 250# front and 500# rear without torsion bar looks fine for me.



Some other nice little stuff for Christmas : a spare DME relay and a stainless braided clutch hose (RS Barn).



Good luck with it.

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[flash]

just got the word on the last remaining component to source - turns out i have to make it myself - no worries - not a big deal



i will now get the items priced out and get prepared for a run - i'll have all the info before i leave to go pick up the new car back east

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[PorscheG96]

I bet you would be really happy with Koni front strut inserts, Koni rear shocks, new suspension/sway bar bushings and an alignment.



If you are willing to splurge a bit more then go for the front and rear m030 sway bars + bushings. I wouldn't recommend stiffer springs for a street car though. Leave 'em stock! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Plus you can order all these parts through Paragon Products [site sponsor].

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[flash]

springs are definitely a subjective thing, and i hesitate to make recommendations there without seeing the car and talking at length to the individual, but yes, most people will never use increased spring rate, and are fine with stock springs



the koni yellpw sport struts are fine for general +1 upgrade street use - the setting for these with stock springs is 3/4 turn to 1 turn from full soft - much more than that and you exceed the spring rate and compromise the ride



the koni yellow sport shocks leave a LOT to be desired - they are an easy pop in upgrade, but are not nearly as nice of a ride as a hydraulic shock, and are a pain to adjust (i have a not very clean used pair a buddy left here to sell for him that you can have for cheap cheap) - i used to recommend the konis as a standard upgrade, and still would for somebody on a tight budget, but now that i have learned better, it is by no means the first choice, and not for anybody who likes a smooth ride



M030 sways are pretty much a no brainer, and i will be putting them in all of my more "normal" street cars, and would recommend them to anybody

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[Rudolf968]

I wonder if anybody has experience with Intrax progressive springs, with or without torsion bar delete.

The complete coil-over set of this company (from Holland) is a little expensive, but their springs in combination with Koni yellows or some other shocks seems to be interessting for bumpy roads.

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/huh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mellow.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[94SilverCab]

Santa's Coming....Suspension Wish List

Technical happysails2you 6 139 Yesterday, 03:32 PM

Last post by: Rudolf968



I'm sorry, this just struck me as a bit funny...please carry on with your conversation...

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[happysails2you]

[quote name='94SilverCab' post='44518' date='Dec 11 2007, 08:31 AM']Santa's Coming....Suspension Wish List

Technical happysails2you 6 139 Yesterday, 03:32 PM

Last post by: Rudolf968



I'm sorry, this just struck me as a bit funny...please carry on with your conversation...[/quote]



Hehehehehehe, Jay. Good catch! I may be coming up your way after the holidays to see Pete....will keep you posted.

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[pbc1548]

Kathy,

Absolutely go see Pete. I did this past fall and the change to the car was quite remarkable. All i did was sway bars, castor blocks and upper & lower design1 braces. Also added the RSB catback. Highly recommended. Good luck.

Paul

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[Gentleman Driver]

[quote name='pbc1548' post='44544' date='Dec 12 2007, 09:18 AM']Kathy,

Absolutely go see Pete. I did this past fall and the change to the car was quite remarkable. All i did was sway bars, castor blocks and upper & lower design1 braces. Also added the RSB catback. Highly recommended. Good luck.

Paul[/quote]



Funny, I am in the same situation as you Kathy. My front struts are gone so I want to replace the entire suspension (well, shocks and springs). I just replaced front swaybar bushings and castor blocks, and I was on my way to get an alignment when I figured I should just do all of it before I did...



And hey, my right rear was sitting lower than my left too! I adjusted it up slightly and the ride height is fine now, so I wouldn't worry about that. I am thinking about Koni's front and rear with the CS Springs, but I understand Flash has some other suggestions. I am looking to spend around $500 on parts and I will only use the car for street use and the occasional track day (read: 1 or 2 times a year), so I value a somewhat smooth ride over outright capability.



Let us know what you settle on and why you made the decision. I have a Coupe, but I think much of what you learn will be applicable to my situation.



Also, even though I just spent $40 on new front swaybar bushings, should I go ahead and upgrade to the M030 bars???



Thanks gents!



GD

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[flash]

i do indeed have other solutions, which will all be available very soon through pete



however, you won't find anything at all for $500, mine or otherwise - even the koni struts and club sport springs will set you back more than that, and that's if you do the conversion yourself, and you haven't gotten to the rear yet



if you are handy, and have the tools, and you do the koni conversion yourself (reusing the stock springs), you can do a strut and shock change for less than $500, but you still have to then go and get a 4 wheel alignment with ride height, so you are still looking at about $750



anything other than that will cost significantly more

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[Gentleman Driver]

[quote name='flash' post='47683' date='Feb 17 2008, 12:47 PM']i do indeed have other solutions, which will all be available very soon through pete



however, you won't find anything at all for $500, mine or otherwise - even the koni struts and club sport springs will set you back more than that, and that's if you do the conversion yourself, and you haven't gotten to the rear yet



if you are handy, and have the tools, and you do the koni conversion yourself (reusing the stock springs), you can do a strut and shock change for less than $500, but you still have to then go and get a 4 wheel alignment with ride height, so you are still looking at about $750



anything other than that will cost significantly more[/quote]



I was not including the cost of alignment in my $500. Are the Paragon springs the same spec as CS springs? I think I will leave my stock swaybars on for now because this will put me closer to $1,000 total...



Thanks Flash

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[flash]

any time



i don't know which springs from paragon to which you are referring, so i can't comment on that



according to the workshop manual, there are 2 types of club sports springs:



1 - same wire diameter as standard - same spring rate as standard - 20mm lower ride height - these were on non M030 club sports



2 - varying wire diameter (which would indicate variable rate) - same nominal spring rate - these were on M030 club sports

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[Gentleman Driver]

[quote name='flash' post='47686' date='Feb 17 2008, 04:21 PM']any time



i don't know which springs from paragon to which you are referring, so i can't comment on that



according to the workshop manual, there are 2 types of club sports springs:



1 - same wire diameter as standard - same spring rate as standard - 20mm lower ride height - these were on non M030 club sports



2 - varying wire diameter (which would indicate variable rate) - same nominal spring rate - these were on M030 club sports[/quote]



Apologies...



I was referring to #1, the non-M030 springs. I have been looking at the Paragon site and it appears they may have a decent solution for my low budget:



Paragon Products



Looks like I can send them my strut and spring assembly and they will replace all of it for a good price. With this option, I am looking at the H&R Sport Springs though (which I can't find on their website to get pricing)... What do you think Flash?



Cheers



Actually, it appears these are the H&R Springs they are referring to in the other link:



H&R Springs



Anyone heard of experience with these? Appear to be a decent price, although 1 inch lower is a lot...

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[flash]

yeah- very familiar with the H&R - if these are the same ones, they are a nice spring, but not stock rate - not bad though (190-230 vs stock 160) - as a general rule, H&R does tend to sag a little over time though, so you may end up a bit lower after a while



if you go that route, just so you know what it really costs, realize that the $135 is each, and is only for the labor for the conversion - you still have to buy the cartridges, which as it says, are sold separately at $175.96 each - so, you are looking at $621.92 plus shipping both ways for the struts, $195 for the springs, and then you still need shocks ($135.46 each) - that means you are looking at about $1100 plus shipping - many have done it, and it works fine - just not $500

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[Gentleman Driver]

[quote name='flash' post='47721' date='Feb 18 2008, 03:10 PM']yeah- very familiar with the H&R - if these are the same ones, they are a nice spring, but not stock rate - not bad though (190-230 vs stock 160) - as a general rule, H&R does tend to sag a little over time though, so you may end up a bit lower after a while



if you go that route, just so you know what it really costs, realize that the $135 is each, and is only for the labor for the conversion - you still have to buy the cartridges, which as it says, are sold separately at $175.96 each - so, you are looking at $621.92 plus shipping both ways for the struts, $195 for the springs, and then you still need shocks ($135.46 each) - that means you are looking at about $1100 plus shipping - many have done it, and it works fine - just not $500[/quote]



Great insight, thanks. That was a little confusing on their website... Assuming you, or anyone else watching this thread, has experience with Koni Strut inserts, how difficult is the process to replace, including the removal and installation of new springs? Is it worth the extra $300+ for Paragon to do it?

I feel confident that I can do most easy-to-medium work on the car (bolt-ons, oil changes, etc...), but I don't know where this job falls in the difficulty spectrum.

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[banditsc]

It's pretty easy to do the conversion and there are good detailed instructions on how to do it on Paragons site, which are located here.. http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index.php?article=36

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[Gentleman Driver]

[quote name='banditsc' post='47724' date='Feb 18 2008, 04:14 PM']It's pretty easy to do the conversion and there are good detailed instructions on how to do it on Paragons site, which are located here.. http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index.php?article=36[/quote]

Thanks for the link. I reviewed it previously, and although the process appears simple, there seems to be a significant opportunity for error. In other words, what happens if I cut a millimeter or two off? The directions say there is a margin of error, but do I want to take that risk? Has anyone here actually performed this on their own?



Thanks again, and apologies for all of the questions. I just don't want to get myself into a situation that is over my head...



Cheers

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[flash]

not too bad - the critical parts are the length of the housing, and the centering of the hole at the bottom - i've done the job - no fear - measure twice and cut once - it can be messy though when you drill the hole, so prepare for that



removing the struts can be made MUCH easier than the instructions generally indicate - you DO NOT need a spring compressor - merely remove the front swaybar first - then remove the big nut in the center of the strut mount - no need to remove the upper strut bearing - the control arm will then swing down freely, and after compressing the strut shaft a bit, you can slip the spring out

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