[Kaj Hallstrom]

I am just about to replace my fog light bulbs. I use my fog light as day light running lights and want them to be a bit brighter. The question: How do I get to the bulb? Thought I would check with you guys first before I do surgery and make a mistake. FYI. I do have the original US market turn and fog light unit.

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[robadams56]

As I recall, it's the same as for the 993 and you can find that procedure in this link.  I replaced one of mine last year and it was an easy task.  Good luck!

 

https://rennlist.com/how-tos/a/porsche-9...hts-382761

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[Kaj Hallstrom]

Thanks, good info. Bulbs are on their way. So the key to success here is to remove the small rubber plate in the front of the rubber bumper. (the stupid US mandated issue) and then unscrew the unit from there.

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[MCL968]

I hope you didn't increase the wattage of the bulbs too drastically, the wiring is not well suited to extremely high loads.

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[lbpesq]

Perhaps a switch to LED would result in brighter lights without putting too much of a load on the wiring?

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[94SilverCab]

I'm using the Silver Star bulbs, be prepared for 25% shorter life, but the light is very bright.

 

Jay

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[flash]

brighter bulbs are not the answer to better night vision, and in fact create more problems than they solve by increasing glare.  

 

decrease the lumens of the dash lights instead.  turn them down as low as possible, while still being able to read them.  if that isn't enough, switch to yellow bulbs in the fogs.  the human eye sees yellow best, and blue worst.  fog lights are not to cut through the fog.  they are to be aimed at the sides of the road, and pick up the edges and lines.  if being used as a daytime running light, all the more reason to change to yellow, as they will be seen the easiest.

 

there is a 400 page report out there on this, and i posted a link a long long time ago, should one want real information.

 

also, be careful about using them as daytime running lights.  the laws vary from state to state.  in california, fog lights are only legal when used in conjunction with the low beam.  in california, it's a pretty ugly ticket to deal with, should you run across a cop having a bad day, like i did.  i was forced to remove them from a car, and then prove that i had done it, and pay a hefty fine, and go to traffic school.  not fun

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[94SilverCab]

Bright bulbs in the "Driving Lights" are not as much of a problem for me as very bright headlights. The light from below does not reflect back strongly, and gives me a wider vision of the side of the road.

 

I use my Driving Lights as Daytime Running Lights all the time in PA..YMMV.

 

Jay

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[Kaj Hallstrom]

I took note of the post from flash about the ticket he got using fog lights. Was it during night driving ?. I checked with my local police department today. As you all know the North American 944/928/968 was imported with independent fog light control. All new cars have fog lights incorporated in the headlight switch, meaning you can't turn fog lights on without headlights. I was told  today that it is fine to use the fog lights as DRL's but only in the daytime hours. 30 minutes after sunset headlights must be on for you to use the fog lights. That officer, Flash, must have had a really bad hair day!!

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[flash]

while never understood the concept of daytime running lights, and when i see them, i say to myself "look at the idiot with his lights on in the daytime", which i guess means it has done its job by making me notice them, so, to each his own on that i suppose, but to me it's like the guy running down the road with his blinker on.

 

my ticket was at night.  my fog lights were too bright.  had they have been yellow though, i would not have gotten the ticket.  small town.  bored cop.

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[Kaj Hallstrom]

The story of daylight running lights goes way back more than 40 years. It was first written into law in Sweden requiring all motorists to turn on low beams 24 hours a day. The law was based on a study and report from our own back yard. Hwy 37, a stretch from East Novato to Vallejo in the SF North Bay had so many head on collisions that the local government thought people could see each other better if the headlights came on.during the day. After signs where posted accidents went down significantly..

 

PS: I love the fact that the fog lights on the 968 and the flashing of high beams can be controlled with the regular lights stowed. A classic German Autobahn feature..

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[lbpesq]

One thing I've learned in over 30 years of practicing criminal law is that you can't rely on the cops, (or most others), to know the law.    There is no law in California that makes it illegal to use your fog lights as DRLs.  What is illegal is to have more than four total lights on in front.  Also, you cannot use fog lights in place of headlights.   At night, the headlights would have to be on too.  What is illegal is to use parking lights without headlights.  Parking lights are defined in Vehicle Code §24801:

 

"Parking lamps are those lamps permitted by Section 25106, or any lamps mounted on the front of a vehicle, designed to be displayed primarily when the vehicle is parked."

 

Since fog lamps are certainly designed for other than when the vehicle is parked, they are not "parking lamps" and may lawfully be displayed without headlights during daylight hours EXCEPT when it's raining.  In California, you are required to turn on your headlights any time the weather conditions require you to run your wipers

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[Kaj Hallstrom]

Thanks for spelling it out. That is exactly what the NPD told me......keep your lights on folks??

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[flash]

i suspect the reason the accidents went down is the increased patrolling and attention for that ticket.  it's an easy one to spot from far away.  great revenue generator.  visibility of a car is not the issue in most areas.  in fact, it can be very confusing in congested areas, as the tail lights create sensory fatigue in the driver behind you.

 

per CVC section 24403, the fogs can't be on unless the low beams are on.  they may be used with, but not in substitution of, the main beams.  further, the focusing of the fogs is critical, and the beam center must be at least 4" lower than the main beams, and cannot project higher than the main beam

 

i got pulled over because the fogs were on and the headlights weren't.  i convinced him it was an oversight.  the ticket was for being too bright.  they get you in the end.

 

riceron

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[lbpesq]

California Vehicle Code Sec. 24403 provides that fog lamps may not be used "in substitution of headlamps". Using them at night, or while the wipers are on, without the headlamps on, would violate this statute. Using them during the day, in dry weather, as DRLs, is not "in substitution of headlamps".

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[flash]

the section is not written well, and leaves open room for misinterpretation.  there is a common erroneous assumption about cars and anything related, which fall under DOT's jurisdiction.  unlike other areas, where it is legal unless something says it isn't, with an agency like this, it is the reverse.  it is illegal unless something says it's legal.  (it's the same with flying and the FAA by the way).  you have to start with the assumption that foglights are illegal.  in fact, anything and everything about a car is illegal, unless and until a law is written to specifically allow it.  lights are no exception, and the federal and state laws on these are extensive and complicated.  every light has to be specifically approved, in its specific application, and will bear the DOT marking.  then, from there, the section gives permission to use foglights, but not in substitution of headlamps, which means not by themselves, and therefore only leaves use in conjunction with headlamps as the only time they may be used.  it also makes no provision or exception for time of day, solar eclipse, or armageddon.  

 

one of the problems here is that all lights are not created equal.  daytime running lights are nothing like fog lights.  they are a different beam type, lens, bulb, and intensity.

 

there is also a limit to the allowable brightness of daytime running lights.  it is 21 watts in an incandescent bulb (there is also a temperature and candlepower number associated, but you can do your own math on that).  fog lights can be 30 watts.  (this is where i got into trouble.)  downwatt the bulbs to 21 watts, and you might have an argument.  i cannot guarantee that you will win that argument though, as the housing and lens are still for fog. without doing that though, you are in violation.  it would be interesting to test it in court though.

 

that is precisely why all cars today tie the fog lights into the main beams.  it is also why cars now have daytime running lights, AND some of them have fog lights, all of which are controlled by the headlamp switch, and don't allow you to run the fog lights by themselves.  people couldn't figure this out on their own, so they took care of it at the source and made it idiot proof.

 

bottom line - you cannot legally run the fog lights alone as daytime running lights in california.  will you ever get caught?  i can't answer that.  will the cop know any better?  likely not.  a traffic court judge?  not much more likely.  (i know they don't like their judgement to be called into question though) personally, i like to fight these kinds of tickets in court.  i've won 17 of 24 for various things.  stupid?  sure, but i'm an odd duck to begin with.

 

do ya feel lucky?  well?  do ya?

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[Kaj Hallstrom]

Well, lets finish off this discussion for now. It is clear that there are different interpretations of the CVC 24403 and it is not well written. The way I see it (and my local PD as well) is that you may not use fog lights when headlights are required. (At night, during rain, fog, snow). That is what I am going by and I have a printed copy of the CVC in my car. 

 

<a>California Vehicle Code 24403.</a>

  (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with not more than two foglamps that may be used with, but may not be used in substitution of, headlamps.

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[ds968]

I could not give a flying **** about half of the nonsensical and convoluted or ambiguous provisions written in the VC and / or how they may be interpreted by any given authority whether they're informed, or ignorant. I'll do what makes sense to me, and take my chances challenging the so-called violation when and if faced with it.

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[Kaj Hallstrom]

I second that....keep the daylights (fog) running my friends.

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[az968]

Interesting that these cars sold into Canada came with a DRL relay that turned on the fog lights when the engine was on and the headlights off. They go off when the headlights were turned. Same car, same wiring, just plugs into the relay panel below the dash.


I installed a Canadian relay in my car so I don't have to worry about what switch to turn on. And if I get stopped, I ask the cop what the stop is aboot, eh?

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