[moses]

I'm really not knee-jerk anti-government... but, it turns out that red light cameras are not just ineffective but outright risks.



http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80311151159.htm



Just another way for bureaucrats to lift money with total indifference to the effects. Oh, and by the way, speed doesn't kill. The slowest 10% of drivers are overwhelmingly more likely to cause accidents than the fastest 10%. I don't have that reference but it's a legitimate study (I think NHTSA) and I could find it if I had to.

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[flash]

maybe not in florida, but they are VERY effective here in california



people seem to have forgotten that yellow means SLOW DOWN, not speed up and get through



additionally, in gridlock prone areas they are incredibly effective and keeping the intersections clear - when i moved to los angeles one thing that shocked me was that the prevailing attitude was "red means 3 more cars can go through"



a number of people here object to them too, but i find it is because either they just don't want to have to wait that extra 2 minutes at a red light, or just don't want a ticket, like somehow they are entitled to break the law



the argument here against the cameras is that there aren't a lot of dedicated controlled left turns, and that traffic is so heavy that they will never get to turn left if they don't run the red - the answer is not to run the red - the answer is either to get the local government to install left turn lights, or to take three right turns instead of one left



it seems that people have lost the capacity to govern themselves, and need enforcement tools like this to keep them in line - in a perfect world, the honor system would work - unfortunately, it doesn't



as for the floridian situation, perhaps they just shouldn't have the older people driving - i have long felt that there should be more stringent testing of older drivers - relfexes, peripheral vision, and hearing are all things that should be checked periodically, and on all drivers, but especially the older ones, as degradation happens so much quicker - i am dealing with this right now with ayn's parents - it sucks that it happens, but eventually it happens to all of us



we just have to remember that driving is a privilege and not a right

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[S_Cal968]

@Flash

I have to disagree and not for the reason you mentioned. Quite often I've seen what the article states, that some drivers stop abruptly potentially causing an accident. They may combat one issue, but create another. Not all drivers are that skilled or even paying attention - obvious no excuse, but is reality.



I'm not sure how we can conclude that cameras have been effective here. Has there been any recent studies here in CA.? I know someone that works for the court system and they said the cameras are expensive to purchase and maintain and as a result are not always activated.

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[MikeNH]

[quote name='S_Cal968' post='49216' date='Mar 13 2008, 09:33 PM']@Flash

I have to disagree and not for the reason you mentioned. Quite often I've seen what the article states, that some drivers stop abruptly potentially causing an accident. They may combat one issue, but create another. Not all drivers are that skilled or even paying attention - obvious no excuse, but is reality.



I'm not sure how we can conclude that cameras have been effective here. Has there been any recent studies here in CA.? I know someone that works for the court system and they said the cameras are expensive to purchase and maintain and as a result are not always activated.[/quote]



Worked good in NC. My commute included two nasty intersections that people would always run. Cameras stopped that after about 6 weeks.



Great for me as I ride a motorcycle and red-light runners are deadly



Saying they cause people to stop suddenly is weak. The only reason they need to slam on the brakes is they intended to run the light until they saw the camera.

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[moses]

Same results in North Carolina, Virginia, and Ontario as in FL, an increase in both accidents and injuries. I don't know what went into the 2001 House study. The article didn't mention any real studies supporting cameras.



Anecdotal information can be hard to interpret, even when it has some real truth. As a motorcyclist I know where Mike is coming from. And as a frequent pedestrian I get really pissed at red light runners, but I wonder if the cameras just prevent some class of red-runners, maybe have no effect on the most flagrant red-runners who may also cause the majority of accidents. So they cut down on running red lights but not on accidents.



Just a thought.

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[flash]

yes, there have been documented positive results here in ca - cameras have been in effect here for years - very effective



the opponents that point to the few people who stop abruptly are the same ones that cling the idea that seat belts are dangerous because they think they can't get out of them when their car goes into a river - but, it's a smokescreen



the bottom line is that if abrupt stopping is an issue, the person behind was following too closely - you are supposed to leave enough room to stop safely if the car in front of you immediately stops - it's the law - unfortunately another one though that is too often ignored - a quick look on the freeways will show people 20 feet apart, when they should be 10 times that - that was something that made me crazy when i rode a motorcycle, and why i kept a pocket full of marbles



certainly, as with anything, there will be bad with good, but the good of the cameras far outweighs the bad of the red light runners

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[Chris Vais]

My son just got nailed by a red light camera somewhere in LA and the fine will be over $300, something he doesn't need just now. He told me he continued through the light because he heard emergency vehicle sirens. So I asked him what would have happened had the emergency vehicle passed through the intersection as he was running the red light. End of discussion, he gets it.



On of my service friends, a guy who flew 2 combat tours in Viet Nam, and Kuwait, survived 28 years as an aviator was killed by a red light runner 6 months after he retired from active military service. He was driving a Porsche that I helped him find, his first "toy" after retirement. As far as I am concerned, there should be a camera a every heavily used intersection in the State. If you get caught pay the fine and don't do it again.

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[sbdrivingdotcom]

Ditto and sorry to hear of your loss. I lost my mother in an automobile accident. It wasn't a red light driver but I still think about it every time I get behind the wheel.



We've all run a red light accidentally because we weren't paying attention well enough and it is a good wake up call. I own a driving school and spend two hours minimum per day in the car with teenagers -- I know that sounds insane and at times it is -- and I have witnessed two near collisions with vehicles running red lights in the past year. Even if YOUR light is green look both ways before you enter the intersection so you give yourself a chance in the very unlikely, but nonetheless possible, event that someone is running a red light. Defensive driving works and anything that can make our roads safer I'm for.

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[S_Cal968]

[quote name='MikeNH' post='49218' date='Mar 13 2008, 07:08 PM']Saying they cause people to stop suddenly is weak. The only reason they need to slam on the brakes is they intended to run the light until they saw the camera.[/quote]



Weak or not it's a valid point.

Another reason is the folks that are so preoccupied with all the gadgets out today; sadly they could care less how they affect others.



re: Distance; In a perfect world where everyone had common sense and were courteous our insurance and stress levels would be lower. The reality is people DO drive close to each other especially in traffic.



re: Effectivity; Hmm, I no supporting links.... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/huh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Effectivity depends on who you ask. The city that really can't afford them or the company that makes them, [they get the biggest cut of the $300 penalty]. Has anyones insurance gone down after installation - not that I know of[?].



I'm actually neutral on the use of cameras and as mentioned they do have pluses and minuses...

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