[Velocity]

I'm trying to track down a rather loud metal-to-metal sounding rattle that I get from the top hatch area anytime my car goes over anything but smooth pavement.    I've tracked (with the assistance of a couple of 9 year old kids crammed in the closed hatch area! :-)) the rattle down to the area shown below (view is from rear with hatch open):    

   

 

There is an interior fastener in the interior roofliner between the sunroof and rear hatch right in the area of this rattle - shown in attached file "fastener1" - while the fastener seems to be in well, how does one remove these?  I'd be curious if removing/reattaching this fastener may help the rattle.

 

   

 

I've also noticed that some other interior fasteners seem to of been replaced under prior ownership with phillips head screws - see pic below for an example (above rear left seat in trim).   Wondering if prior fastener failure maybe caused use of these phillips-head screws, or if it was just "what was handy at the time"...?

 

   

 

Two other potential culprits :

- the roofliner appears to be separating a bit from the "cardboard layer" under it just to the right of where I hear the rattle. While it seems purely cosmetic, I'm wondering if it could be related...? Best pic I could find is below - arrow points to area of roofliner separation.    Also note (from this same pic) the trim around the hatch is in pretty poor shape.  I've replaced several of the small nuts on the bolts with new ones, and tightened them down wherever I could.

 

   

 

- I opened the sunroof and drove around a bit, thinking maybe sunroof wasn't sealing/holding properly.    Rattle still persisted with sunroof open.   I did notice that the right side of my sunroof opens further than the left side - any potential for rattling to be caused by that?   ...or as an aside - any idea what would cause this?     Still need to remove sunroof entirely and see if rattle persists.     Difference in left and right full open of sunroof is shown in below pic (with my Cayenne making a guest appearance in background).

 

   

 

Any idea/suggestions?    This rattle has been driving me nuts, and I'd appreciate any speculation on items to check to troubleshoot source and resolve it!  :-)

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[Waylander]

Hi


The Philips head scews are standard, they have interior color push on caps over the top from the factory


Your rattle could be the glass coming out of the rear hatch frame this is quit a common problem, just search for delamination


The sun roof issue could well be the drive cable not seated correctly in the gearbox under the removable panel that is held up with the screws you were wondering about


I would remove that rear trim panel its only a few screws, just pop off the caps and remove


The headlining stretches right across under that and I would take a bet it has been cut to allow access to the sun roof gears


If all the cable system and clips and foam has not been replaced correctly this could also be the source of your rattle

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[pdxmike]

Waylander is correct - hatch glass delamination is a likely culprit and unfortunately challenging to address.

 

It is also possible that your rear hatch is not seating firmly. This is easy to check for and fix by adjusting the two rear hatch pins.

 

Also possible that your rear hatch seal may be worn. A common symptom of this would be exhaust fume intrusion with windows down, as the negative pressure pulls fumes into the cabin.

 

The sunroof unevenness may be drive cable - more likely, though, is that that "arms" are not indexed correctly. Quite easy to remove the plastic drive cover (it will be obvious once you remove the headliner) and adjust that passenger side arm a few teeth rearward.

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[Waylander]

If the hatch needs fixing, as you cant buy a new one now, they have sold the last one from Germany $5000 was the going price,

 

to repair you have to get the glass out of the alloy frame.

 

without smashing the glass

without bending the frame

 

and it all has to be prepared with the correct bonding paints for both glass and alloy then the glass has to be glued back in on the car, as no one has the jig to hold the frame square

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[IndischRot968]

I'd say the sunroof and surrounding area are more likely reasons for the rattle, not the rear hatch. The rear hatch may indeed be delaminating after all  these years, however, based on my experience that does not cause the rattle. The hatch top delamination results in water leaks, wailing wind noise and overall poor noise insulation but it doesn't cause the rattle (or at least didn't rattle in my case). To properly reseal the hatch is not an easy task as outlined by Waylander above. You may also check two rear hatch pins to make sure that the hatch closes and seals properly at the bottom. If these are out of alignment one corner may not fully close or both corners may close but not tight enough leading to a rattle.

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[Waylander]

If you need new caps for the screws, order from Porsche

 

311 867 169 01C for black. they are a $1.80 each, If your missing any of the correct screws for the caps as they have different heads they are

311 867 167 $1.87

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[Velocity]

Well, I thought I'd found my rattle today - I removed the interior roof trim panel behind sunroof ahead of rear hatch, which exposed the antenna,cables, etc :

 

   

 

Tapping on the foam covered part of the antenna cable (covers a coax connector, I think) produced a significant rattle type of noise similar to what I'd heard while driving - got a good video of it, but looks like we can't attach videos..    Turns out the foam on the back of this connector had deteriorated and the metal connector was hitting the metal of the roof.   I used a piece of double sided foam sticky tape (only utilizing the "sticky side" on the roof and leaving the cover on the side facing the cable/connector) to provide insulation between the connector and roof, isolating the metal to metal contact :

 

   

 

This seemed to eliminate the rattle from this particular cause.   I got the interior trim reattached and went for a test drive.    For much the drive, the worst rattle I'd heard was gone, but I did wind up hearing it a few times before I made it back home.    :whine: Not sure if I still have another source for that specific rattle, or perhaps the tape didn't hold.    I may remove trim again to check tape and find any other points that may be connecting and isolate those as well.       

 

...progress, but not resolved.

 

 

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[Waylander]

You need that trim off to sort out the wonky sun roof anyway

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[pdxmike]

Interesting, would not have thought of that connector as a suspect.

 

Would suggest removing the degraded foam and zipties, wrapping in "camper seal tape" or similar, and re-zip tying to keep the new foam in place.

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[Velocity]

Well - a quick update to my rattle.   I replaced the double-sided sticky tape with a thin foam material across much of the headliner area - no improvement - rattle still persisted.   Still haven't fixed the uneven sunroof issue, but did confirm (via removing the sunroof entirely and driving around more) rattle doesn't seem directly related to sunroof.

 

I did have two of the "hatch bolts" on the left side of the hatch that had completely separated from the hatch frame, so I spent some time last weekend cleaning them up the best I could, and using epoxy to secure the base of the bolt back to the hatch frame.    While I've only done a couple of short drives since that "fix" was completed, I'm happy to report that the rattle has significantly diminished.   I can only hear a very minor (quieter and shorter duration) rattle coming from that area now, and only when going over rough spots in the road.    My theory is that the loose/missing bolts on left side of the hatch somehow caused the glass at top right of hatch to be shifting enough in the frame (or perhaps the frame itself shifting due to less "rigidity" from not being as secured to glass of left side).

 

In any case, I'm hoping this fix lasts and adds some years to the hatch/glass.

 

Showing separation of the bolts/bolt base from the frame:

 

   

 

Showing after epoxy applied and clamps in place - left like this for ~8 hours (epoxy said 30 minutes bonding time).   Removed clamps, but didn't drive car until next day.

 

   

 

Showing same bolts/bolt base AFTER epoxy dried.   Tightened down nuts afterwards.

 

   

 

I'll check the nuts all around the frame in a couple of weeks.   If any have loosened, I'll remove each individually and use a tiny bit of loctite on each bolt to try and keep them from re-loosening over time.

 

 

 

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[Waylander]

Those little nuts only hold on the “hockey sticks” the side trims of the hatch, go careful and don’t break them they are glass fibre and over $300 each

 

the metal plates become detached as they are glued on with flexible adhesive like tiger seal or windscreen bond, as they do expand quite a bit in the sun

 

the glass is bonded in to the frame and there are no nuts and bolts holding it in, only the side trims and the upper and lower rear spoilers are mechanically fixed

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[Velocity]

Those little nuts only hold on the “hockey sticks” the side trims of the hatch, go careful and don’t break them they are glass fibre and over $300 each

 

 

Thanks for that tip - I'll go easy on tightening things as I certainly don't want to crack the $300 "hockey sticks".   :-O

 

I doubt the epoxy I used has much "flex" to it - hopefully that won't cause issues.    If I wind up re-gluing any others, I'll look for some more suitable adhesive.     

 

I've also noticed a couple of the plates near the base (ie, most rearward of the hatch) under where the spoiler is mounted appear to have been removed entirely (perhaps during the aftermarket spoiler install).   If so, I can't imagine that's helping the hatch stability in any way.   Hope to connect with another local 968 owner soon and will have to compare his stock spoiler setup to see.

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[Velocity]

I've been continuing to work this issue a bit -- decided to see if I could fix the "uneven sunroof" problem I mentioned in my initial post on this thread, both for cosmetic sake and just to rule that out as a source of the rattle.    I was prepared to try and "reindex" the lifter arms, but with sunroof entirely removed, both lifter arms retract to the identical point in their tracks, so don't think the indexing is the issue.    I started inspecting sunroof gasket to ensure it wasn't uneven - did some minor adjustments but looked good overall.     While I was inspecting other areas around the sunroof, I did find something else I'd like to get anyone's thoughts on.     There are 4 "adjustment screws" in the inner sunroof body trim area (towards each of the four corners) - shown as part 70 in diagram beiow).   They tighten down into a separate piece (apparently known as a "Blind rivet nut m4"  that goes into the headliner area (part 71 in diagram below and shown in second picture with green arrow).

 

   

 

"Blind rivet nut" in headliner interior:

 

   

 

As I inspected each of these, I quickly realized 3 our of the 4 screws were broken (BOTH of the ones on right side of car, same side that sunroof won't lower fully, and same side with the rattle), with more than half of the screw left in the "rivet nut".   Only 1 was still whole/functional (front left)

 

Broken screw (1 of 3 that are broken) :

 

   

 

The one remaining "good" screw : 

 

   

 

Anyone ever run into this?    While i figure out how to replace these (have a few of the "rivets" on order, and the screw is NLA, so will try and find a replacement one at hardware store), does anyone know what they are intended to "adjust"?   Best that I can tell, they'd just make the inner sunroof metal trim/liner tighten down a bit more into the body of the car.    

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[Waylander]

Not noticed these on my car, going to have to go look tomorrow

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[Velocity]

Not noticed these on my car, going to have to go look tomorrow

 

The parts diagrams show a "cap" or something on top of the screw head (labeled 69 in the parts diagram), so they may not be readily visible at first glance.  Mine were all missing the caps, so the screws were easy to spot.

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[Waylander]

I cant see what purpose the serve to be honest, not had a chance to go look today

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[Velocity]

Realizing it'd be basically a temporary band-aid, I had a local glass shop "inject" black glass sealant all the way across the top part of the hatch and about 6 inches down each side, including the area I've seen water intrusion after a wash and where I've heard the rattle from -- on top right of hatch.   

 

That was a week ago and I've gone for several drives since - no rattle at all from that area now, so suspect my source of the rattle was indeed loose glass in the frame.    We'll see how long this lasts, and IF it keeps water out - haven't had a chance to wash car since then.

 

I will still pursue fixing the sunroof trim screw repairs I mentioned above once I get the parts, as I'm still hopeful that may help my uneven sunroof issue.

 

 

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[Waylander]

Delaminating hatch, not uncommon 

 

real pain to fix properly

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