[jfrahm]

I think the S/R sensor is off track.



If your DME was booting and your S/R was not at the correct depth, then you could do your blink test but not start.

If your S/R was disconnected and your DME was working, you'd get a CEL and the blink test would reveal a trouble code.



IMO getting your to normal key-on situation is the priority over checking one sensor input to a DME that is not acting normal with the key on. In other words, get back to being able to see your CEL flash with the key on to verify that your DME is working.



My guess is that either the alarm is disabling the car or that one of the harness wires is broken, disconnected or mashed and grounded and the DME just isn't booted and working.



The pin #7 I was talking about is the alarm disabler (or enabler, more correctly.) I'd like to verify how the alarm operates but I am not crazy about setting mine off at 6:00AM. Does your work? Can you trip it? If not, why not?

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[Cloud9...68]

Joel,



Crap, I just wrote a long response to your last post, hit some random key on my computer by mistake, and wiped it all out. AAARRRGGH!!!



OK, here goes again, from the beginning:



I follow most, but not all of what you're saying. If it's true that a mis-gapped, incorrectly connected, or non-functional speed/reference sensor would not result in the DME outputs not working (as indicated by my CEL not blinking when I try to do a blink test), then you're right that pulling that thing out of that very tight spot and re-gapping it would be a waste of time and knuckle blood. I was focusing on the lack of tach needle bounce as a major clue, but maybe I'm over-emphasizing that.



As far as the alarm, doesn't the fact that I'm getting +12V at socket 86 of the DME relay connector in the fuse box, and that I'm getting +12V at socket 18 of the DME connector whenever the battery is connected, and +12V at socket 27 when the key is in the start position, argue against the alarm immobiizer being responsible for my car not getting any spark? I don't know exactly how the immobilizer works, but logically, I would think it would kill the flow of current to socket 86 of the DME relay, because this socket sends current to the coil within the relay that closes the switch that completes the circuit to send current to the DME. And even if it is the alarm module, I don't have any idea as to how to bypass it, because there's zero information on any of the forums as to how to do this on a 968, and I'm not knowledgeable enough about electronic componentry to figure it out from the wiring diagram.



I did check the voltage at socket 7 in the DME connector (although the manual says this socket is for the air mass sensor - I don't see one listed for the alarm), and it reads 0V with the key in the start position. As far as testing whether my alarm is working, I know this is a stupid question, but how would I do that? I don't remember it every going off since I've owned the car.



I do agree that figuring out why my CEL doesn't flash on and off when I try doing a blink test should be my top priority - I just wish I had some ideas or leads on how to do this. I was hoping there might be a connection between my lack of tach needle bounce and the speed/reference sensor, and that this could somehow cause a lack of output from the DME, but your opinion that there probably isn't actually makes sense. And doesn't this rule out checking every other input signal to the DME (most of which have to be tested with an oscilloscope with the engine running, anyway)? In other words, the blink test is designed to test if these sensors and components are working, so I can see that it doesn't make sense that one or more of them not working would cause the blink test to not function.



If it is a bad wire somewhere in the harness - holy crap - anybody in the market for a 2800 lb paper weight? Seriously, I was very careful with the harness while I had the engine out of the car, for the very reason that I wanted to avoid causing the type of nightmare I'm now living. The fabric wrap had come off most of the harness, so I carefully re-wrapped it in that flexible accordion plastic sheath material, which I wrapped with a zip tie every few inches. This gave me the opportunity to inspect every inch of my harness, and it looked to be in very good shape. Also, the recent testing I've been doing has been with the DME and its harness laying on the passenger compartment floor (there's no seat in the car), so if a wire were kinked, it shouldn't be now.



Any ideas on how to figure out why my blink test isn't working would be greatly welcomed. Thanks.

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[MB968]

Cloud, I agree with Joel.



I would not pull the S/R sensor. If you set the gap when you built up the engine on the stand it should be close enough. The gap setting isn't that critical. The only reason that I've mentioned the S/R sensor, is that it is one of only a couple of things that will stop an engine from starting. And the resistence check that I mentioned shouldn't take more than 10 min to do. The connector on the top rear of the engine is easy to get to. And, if the resistence looks at all in range, it's one thing you can cross off the list.

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[Cloud9...68]

MB,



Thanks; I do to, and I appreciate seeing some consensus on an issue as potentially complex as mine.



I checked the resistance across the pins of my S/R connector, and I got exactly the same values as yours, so I think I will cross that off my list for now. I'm as sure as I can be that I set the gap correctly. The disturbing thing is that at this moment, other than installing that spare DME that should arrive tomorrow, my list consists of exactly zero items, as I've pretty much talked myself out of all the other possibilities. I guess I'll take another hard look at the harness wires for signs of insulation having worn off.

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[Eric_K]

I'd venture it is likely a simple issue, it is just a matter of finding it. Chances are it is something you touched when removing/installing the engine.



Have you checked the grounds? Especially the 2 that attach to the back of the engine. I've missed hooking up one of those up before.

I'd double check the reference sensor connector. I have had them look connected, but not positively clicked. I've also had the pins inside a connector spread, causing a bad connection.

If the alarm module is still there, I would just disconnect it.

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[jfrahm]

Have you tested the alarm? You can do this by locking the car with the window open and then pulling up the lock and opening the door. The horn should hoot, the lights flash, etc. In this condition the car will not start but I think you get a CEL with the key on, engine off. If this is not possible I would not rule out the possibility that the alarm is disabling the car. I am not sure if the alarm disabler can be ruled out by what you see at the DME relay (maybe it can, maybe it can't I don't know.)



You might try cycling the alarm on and off to reset it, in case it is in some weird state.



Do you get no CEL at all, not with the key on engine off?

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks for the inputs, guys. When you work on cars enough, you build up enough scar tissue from all the issues (some self-inflicted, as I'm sure my current one is) you run across that it breeds a certain camaraderie with others who have been in the same boat, so the responses are definitely appreciated.



Eric,



Yes, I'm sure my problem is caused by something I did. Candidates are the removal of my air bag control module, which I jumpered according to some instructions that appeared to have been successfully used by several people, but which I could very well have done incorrectly, and the fact that the 12-pin connector in the passenger footwell came apart on me, so I had to painstakingly reassemble it according to the wiring diagram, on my back, at a painful angle. So, I will double-check both of these items. Flash also suggested confirming the operation of the throttle position sensor, which makes sense, since pushing the throttle to the floor is the first step of the blink test, and to confirm the flow of current through all of the critical fuses. I have checked the grounds, and all appear solid, as I was very cognizant of the issues bad grounds can cause when I was re-connecting them. In addition, I installed an auxiliary ground that came with my Higher Connections cable kit between the engine and the chassis, so I think my car is well grounded. I will check the reference sender connector. It looks well connected, but I'll double check.



Joel,



Well, I'm afraid I can't test the operation of the alarm, because both of my door lock buttons are broken, and don't actually grab onto the mechanism. I can say that the alarm seems to be arming successfully, since the diodes in the door lock buttons both start flashing several seconds after I lock the car. Does this tell you anything useful? And wouldn't disconnecting the alarm module altogether automatically immobilize the car (which is why people bypass them, to fool the ECU into thinking it's still there)?



And yes, the CEL illuminates as soon as I turn the key to the start position, with the engine off. But it doesn't flash when I press the throttle to the floor and hold it for several seconds. I've held it for over 20 seconds, and it doesn't flash - it just stays illuminated.

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[Eric_K]

That's new info. The 12 pin connector would be my prime suspect for finding the issue both the ref sensor signal and CEL go thru it.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Eric_K' timestamp='1358133932' post='137389']

That's new info. The 12 pin connector would be my prime suspect for finding the issue both the ref sensor signal and CEL go thru it.

[/quote]

Sorry for adding this piece of info late in the process - this project has been going on for nearly two years, and I've done so much on this car in that time that it's hard for me to remember it all. And as I think back on it, I didn't actually use a wiring diagram to put it back together. From what I remember, its cap came off somewhere during the project, causing the wires to pull out of the connector. So before they had a chance to move very much, I marked them all according to where I thought they belonged in the connector, and then when I put the engine back in, I put the wires back into the connector based on my labeling. But of course, given the number of wires, there's a pretty high probability that I didn't get them all correct. But putting this thing back together was such a miserable experience that I convinced myself I got it right, and wrapped a pair of zip ties around it to make sure it would never come apart again. A case of very wishful thinking, I guess.



So, given that this connector has a reasonably high probability of being the cause of my problem, does anyone have any ideas as to how I should go about checking that I have the wires, both coming into and going out of it, connected to the right sockets in the connector? For example, does anyone know which wiring diagram this connector is on, and what it's called? I've looked through the diagrams in the manual, but I can't seem to find this connector, which is strange, as it should be a pretty prominent item, but without knowing what it's called, I'm having a hard time locating it. Or does anyone have a picture of theirs disassembled? Or is there a brave soul out their willing to pull their apart and take a few good, clear pictures of it, allowing me to clearly see which wires go where? Or even write up a description, stating which color wires go into which numbered socket.



The worst part of putting this connector back together was that the wires' pins that I managed to put back into the connector tended to pop out while I was struggling to put the remaining pins in, so if anyone who has ever done this has any suggestions on how to make the job easier, and less error-prone, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

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[MB968]

A couple of ideas. Given what you've said I'd definitely focus on this connector. Tie wrap the wire bundle just a short distance away from the connector so that individual wires don't easily seperate. Then, affix the tie wrap to the connector so none of the wires can pull away. This alone may allow you to insert each of the pins without any coming out.



I'm not familiar with this connector, so if you are pushing male pins back through, try wrapping a small piece of blue painters tape on each pin after you push it through so it can't work its way back through the connector. If you're pushing female connectors back through, you may also try using tape to help them in place if there is a way from the back side.



Alternatively, try to find some way to add enough friction to keep the pins in place once they are inserted. Is there a tab that might be bent out a very small amount without breaking it off. If a female connector, can you insert something into the female end that you can put tape on, or ???

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[Cloud9...68]

I found my notes on how I connected the 12-pin connector in the passenger footwell, in case anyone has any documentation to see if I did it correctly. The connector actually has 14 sockets, all labeled, but sockets 6, 13, and 14 aren't used. The odd numbered sockets go along one end of the connector, and the even numbered ones down the other end. Each socket has two wires going into it, one with a male bullet connector at its end, and one with a female connector that the male end fits into. I can't remember whether the wires with the male connectors go into the harness to the DME, or to the other end toward the firewall. But here's how I connected the wires to the sockets:



Socket 1: Female = white, male = blue/white

Socket 2: Female = yellow, male = yellow/green

Socket 3: Female = blue, male = orange/white

Socket 4: Female = green, male = green/black

Socket 5: Female = yellow, male = yellow/white

Socket 7: Female = red, male = red/black

Socket 8: Female = black/yellow, male = black

Socket 9: Female = blue/red, male = red/green

Socket 10: Female = red, male = red

Socket 11: Female = green/black, male = red/blue

Socket 12: Female = black/white, male = white/black



Dying to see if I did it right (the odds appear low, but that would be better than having to buy a new DME...)

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[banditsc]

Here are some pics of the connector I think your talking about. The first three are one side, and the last is the other side.

   

   

   

   

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[Eric_K]

Look on:

Sheet 5 "Engine Compartment, Cruise Control", Grid F-45.

Sheet 2 "Instrument Cluster and Sensor" Grid O-15.



The socket numbers you list don't match the pin numbers on the diagram. The connector has little numbers on it too. Those connectors are crappy, especially after they fall apart. Did both sides or just one side of the connector fall apart? You also have to be careful that pins are oriented correctly and the leads on two neighboring ones aren't touching.

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[flash]

yeah - this was something i asked about earlier. i think the problem has been found.

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks; between the pictures and the wiring diagram, I should be able to piece this together. I can already see from banditc's pictures that the wires in his connector are located in different sockets than what I recorded in my notes.



Only the top of the connector broke when I pulled the connector apart to allow me to pull the harness through the firewall before I pulled the engine. I quickly wrapped a piece of masking tape around both rows of pins to maintain (what I thought was) their positions relative to each other, and made notes as to how the rows of pins were oriented relative to the connector sockets. But it looks like the wires shifted relative to their correct socket locations when the cap broke off the connector and the wires popped out. I'll go strictly by banditc's pictures and the wiring diagram locations that Eric stated to put it back together, and post pictures of the final result to get a few more sets of eyes on it make confirm that I finally got it right. Hopefully this is it; sure smells like it...



I'll also check the other multi-pin conectors while I'm at it, as I had some trouble with some of those as well, though not as much as with the one in the passenger side footwell.

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[MB968]

Looking forward to you reporting that you got er running. As you've said a lot of us can relate to a no start condition after a major build.

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[Cloud9...68]

MB,



Thanks for the words of encouragement. I fully expected to have discovered at least one, and probably several, stupid things that I did during the rebuild, but if this is the only problem (FAR from a certainty!), I don't feel so bad, because the connector kind of came apart in my hands - the wires popped out of it without warning. My mistake was not being more dlilgent in confirming that I had put it back together correctly. I just hope I managed to only confuse the DME, and not to fry it.



Unfortunately, since I feel like I'm going to need a few uninterrupted hours to work on this very awkwardly-placed connector, I may not get to it for a few days. I'd like to take a day off work to tackle it, but I have all-day meetings the next two day; maybe I'll take Thursday off to work on it, unless I can manage to do it tomorrow or Wednesday night, but this isn't the type of thing I want to stop in the middle of. And yes, I'll definitely report back on how it goes.

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[Langley968]

Many of us are quietly following along waiting for the post "It's running again!" <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/beer.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[MB968]

Cloud mistakes happen. Took me about a week to find out why my TecGT didn't work when I first installed it. I needed a special longer than normal harness as I wanted to move the ECU in the cabin. I finally found that an Electromotive tech., making the longer harness, had two pins interchanged in the connector. Flipped them and a weeks of frustration were over, fired right up. Hope you have the same results.

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[kwikt]

Give us the good news Cloud9 <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/beer.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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