[flash]

agreed. it's amazing how something can be taken completely wrong by the reader.

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[Hasbro]

If you're looking for top notch handling street tires, the current top dogs are BFG Rivals and Dunlop ZIIs, in that order. They are both decent in rain for such high performance tires. For instance, my old Kumho XSes cannot compete with them. If you want the absolute best handling "street tire", the next step is either Toyo RA1s or Nitto NT-01s but you pay for them with increased tire wear. The Toyos are brilliant and I use them on my street car.

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[flash]

where did you get that? last i heard, the pilot super sport outran all of those.

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[Hasbro]

In the GRM forums and Andy Hollis also did a comparo. He loves the Rivals. Andy is the winningest autoxer, 12 national championships. The RA1s are another step up. I use a street/autox alignment based on Andy's on my Civic.



I remember reading a test where the Michelin's did very well, as they should. Car and Driver, maybe? They take a lot more variables into account. GRM takes handling into account and that's about it.

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[Kim]

FWIW I replaced the Michelin PS/2 with Michelin Super Sports on my 911 4S. PLease remember that I am NOT an aggressive driver. The SS lasted 22,000 km on the rears (fronts are half worn now) whereas the PS/2 lasted about 10,000 km. A set of Pirelli P-Rosso (I think that is what they were called) lasted 9000 km. And the SS were half the price of the PS/2.

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[flash]

that pricing is an odd canadian phenomenon. the ss is more expensive here in the states, which makes sense, as it is a higher rated tire.



as for reviews, i would not consider autocross as any sort of measuring device. it's certainly not representative of how and where most people drive.



tire rack has the most extensive testing and comparisons i've seen anywhere. magazines do a few comparisons, and limited testing, but they just don't have the budgets to do it right, completely, and impartially.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

[quote name='Inkedupfatboy' timestamp='1368059394' post='142525']

This tire thing is making me crazy. I think I am going to go with theMichelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus..



The second place winner was the Yokohama but I think I am going to go with the Michelin. I was suprosed that everyone who rated the Primacy (which according to Michelin's site says it handles and stops better) hates them and almost all of them have a note saying Michelin customer support will be calling them - and they are the most expensive on their site.



I am going to call around on the A/S's tomorrow.



Ed

[/quote]





For what it is worth, so far after 500 miles, not totally sold on these - they squeal under hard cornering and have broken loose on me a couple of times already. Kind of squirrley. I will keep evaluating, but I think when it is time for new skins, I will try the yoko's or something else.

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[Hasbro]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1382317365' post='150999']

that pricing is an odd canadian phenomenon. the ss is more expensive here in the states, which makes sense, as it is a higher rated tire.



as for reviews, i would not consider autocross as any sort of measuring device. it's certainly not representative of how and where most people drive.



tire rack has the most extensive testing and comparisons i've seen anywhere. magazines do a few comparisons, and limited testing, but they just don't have the budgets to do it right, completely, and impartially.

[/quote]



Which is why I stipulated tires for top handling only. Extreme summers have less channels and sipes, a stickier rubber, more contact patch, stiffer sidewalls, better slip angles, etc., than Max Summers. And the Ra1s and Nittos are even more so. They all pay the price by being louder, more harsh riding, and faster tread wear.



I don't think I'll be going Extremes with the future 986. I will also go Max Summer for better manners. Although those Rivals are so tempting.



Edit; not trying to talk down to you at all - I'm just a hobbyist. Just bringing other options to the table.



Oh, I use the Tire Rack specs, too. Good stuff but there are three top contenders (for handling) that aren't posted yet. BFG Rivals, Dunlop ZIIs, and Bridgestone RE-11As. For anyone wanting top notch street legal grip, RA1s and Nittos NT-01s hands down. Contrary to any street tire, the RA1s grip better the more they wear. Although Nitto is owned by Toyo, I'm not sure if the 01s will improve with wear or if they can take as many heat cycles either. Trivia; RA1s are basically at least a 10 or 12 year old design!!! and are basically track tires that can heat cycle like a road composition. They discontinued them when the R888s came out but a bunch of racers screamed bloody murder so they were brought back.

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[Hasbro]

This year's results are in from Grassroots Motorsports. They used a 2 mile track this year. Extreme Summers.



Listed by fastest dry lap times;

BFG Rival

Hankook R-S3, best in heat

*Bridgestone RE-11A, needs no warm up, falls off after warming up.

*Dunlop ZII



*Best with rain/street

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[flash]

i can see where they may provide better cornering, but at the expense of handling (commonly misused term). that's why i went the route i did on both the blue 968, and the SL550. i was not willing to give up the handling, just to grab a small amount of increased cornering. but then, i am no longer tracking the car either.



i agree the nitto is a great tire for those who want to track, and have been recommending it.

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[scaldwell]

Hi

I have to replace my Toyos due to age and am looking at the Bridgestone Pole Position S-04's. They are 60% of the cost of Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's and test almost as well according to the Tire Rack testing. I am looking for the overall driving package, handling, dry but some wet, as well as ride comfort. Our roads get the crap kicked out of them in winter so I need to be able to enjoy the drive, rather than lose all my fillings first time out.

Any other ideas?



Thanks



Steve

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[az968]

I'm also at the point where I need to replace my tires due to age, before a road trip this summer. Now have Bridgestone Potenza RE01R's, really liked them when they were newer, now the road noise has increased and grip down (23k miles but 5-1/2 yrs). Tire Rack's tests look like the Pilot Sports are better performing but you're right about the price difference with the SO-4's. Anyone have experience with the SO-4s?

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[Bulti]

If you are looking for a max performance tyre, consider the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 summer tire: they are quiet (about 70 dB), very good in the wet and, over here at least, have a very competitive pricing. They look very good in various comparison tests too.



Also important (for some), they are available in 255/40 R17. There are other brands in that size, but they are old(er) models or US only. Strangely enough, this size is not available at tirerack...

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[flash]

i was a bridgestone fan for a long time, and the tires were always grippy. but, now that i prefer comfort, and i am running 18s, i like a softer sidewall tire. so, i am running yokes on the 968 and super sports on the sl550. both great tires. yokes not so much in the wet. super sports are great all around, and if i could get them in the sizes i want, i'd run them on the 968 too.



i never factor price into the tire equation. tires are the only thing between you and the road. this is not the place to be price sensitive if you are planning on pushing the car at all. get the best tire for the conditions under which the car will be driven. any difference in price will be eaten up with your insurance deductible when you underestimate your needs and end up in a ditch, a tree, or the back of somebody's lexus.

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[94SilverCab]

I listened to the hype on Sumitomos from some members of the site. Worst tire decision I ever made. 2 years old and I just don't like the way the handle. Thinking about switching back to Toyos, just have to explain the need for routine maintenance on 2 year old tires to the SO.



Jay

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[flash]

been there done that.



that happens a lot with inexpensive tires. people tend to convince themselves that they are a great tire, and ignore the realities. the first one i remember people going gaga over was the bg goodrich radial ta. tire was pure crap (we called them "sit and spins"). but everybody loved them. it was because they were really cheap. over the years i've seen it with falkens, goodyears, nittos, toyos, and a whole bunch of others. tire companies know this, and so they sometimes cater to the price sensitive, and not the performance enthusiast. this sells more tires, but does the public a disservice.



thankfully we have sites that do independent tests, and can get more than anecdotal information. this is a double-edged sword though, as you also have to factor in the kind of car the tires were tested on. what works on a bmw 3 series is not going to be the same on a 968. so, we are back to anecdotal stuff. it's messy.



there is no perfect answer. for me, and cars that only i drive, wet traction is a non-issue. however, in the same environment, with my wife driving, the decision is entirely different. i also don't care about tire wear on the 968. any tire i choose will age out long before it wears out. on the X5 this will be very different, and on that car i run run-flats. polar opposites.



in the end, there are so many factors that making a decision is really very situational.

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[az968]

Radial ta's, wow that brings back memories. had them on my wife's chevy malibu ss cause she liked the way they looked - wide with a small white wall for dress-up. fortunately they wore out quickly....



i agree that tires will age out before mileage out. we do get some rain up here in the mountains so wet can be a factor. but, when it rains i slow down a little so i can better avoid the drivers that don't....



flash - super sports? do you mean bfg super sports?

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[flash]

nope. michelin pilot super sport. truly amazing tire on the sl550. unlike the contis that i pulled off of the car, which broke loose at the slightest tickle of throttle in a turn on dry (and were slicker than deer guts on a door knob in the wet), i have yet to shake them loose on dry, and they are quiet with a nice ride. seem to be wearing well so far too. they are a bit narrow for their size, but that's a michelin thing (as opposed to bridgestone which tend to run wider in the same size).

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[az968]

Interesting, the PS2's ranked 3rd on TireRack test (Oct 2010) behind Conti's and Goodyears.

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[flash]

not ps2. pilot super sport. totally different animal. they ranked #1 when i bought them a year ago.

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