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Looking for a new Moderator...
#1

As some of you may know Dave has resigned as a moderator on this forum. This was a big surprise to me this morning. No communication was made before his decision so I can not comment. The job is not very difficult as the conversations here are civil. A moderator's responsibility is to make sure everyone is playing fair. Personal attacks are mitigated and threads are posted in their right forums. That's about it. I am not looking for someone who wants to judge others opinions. Everyone has an opinion on this forum and if you or I do not agree with their opinion it is not our problem. The great thing about forums like this one, you can voice your opinion and people can read it, roll their eyes at it or just laugh! It's not the admins job nor the moderators job to pass judgement on members posts.



As a moderator you need to leave your personal feeling about particular individuals at the door. If you can't do that then this is not the job for you.



So I am looking for 1 or 2 guys/gals that can keep an eye on the forum for me. If anyone feels there is a person that would be perfect for the job please urge them to step forward.



Thanks for everyone participation on this forum, it truly is the greatest 968 forum on the net!

Eric
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#2

Eric,



With all due respect, you don't seem to be addressing any of Dave's concerns. He seems to be a very level headed guy and his views are probably not in the minority.



Where did his post about this go?



Eric
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#3

It's been removed.



Eric: you are moving in the entirely wrong direction here.



Reconsider.
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#4

Dave worked very hard on this forum and is a great resource for the 968 community. His loss to the forum is a serious blow. His concerns should not be dismissed with a few keystrokes.



If you are interested in his reason for resigning his post is available on 968.net



deleted post



Do not misunderstand me - I neither agree nor disagree with Dave's concerns. However I will let Sandoval's words speak for themselves - sort of in reverse:



Quote:"The great thing about forums like this one, you can voice your opinion and people can read it, roll their eyes at it or just laugh! It's not the admins job nor the moderators job to pass judgement on members posts."



Certainly the resignation of an important moderator and contributor deserves such respect.
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#5

Ditto RPM <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Leonard
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#6

First off Dave's post which Raj so kindly shared was news to me when I logged on this morning. I deleted his post because it was counter productive.



This is a 100% voluntary forum if you do not like the group of guys here then you do not have to participate. However I think the conversations here are great, the people are great and the forum offers benefits other 968 forums can't offer. This is not a profitable business for me more of a hobby if it goes a way it goes away. However with the number of members this forum has and the consistant activity day in and day out, I do not see this forum changing nor failing.



Next, I will never turn this site into a site which is run and bullied by narrow minded views. Everyone here is entitled to an opinion. It is not my job nor a moderators job to come in and edit posts to tailor around our points of view. You have a few options when reading posts you can read it and agree, read it and shake your head in doubt, read it and laugh, or just move on. It's that simple. If a member starts using obscene fowl language that portion of the message WILL be edited and the member will be contacted. If a member makes personal threats against another member i.e. I am going to kick your butt. That portion of the message will be edited. Taking the guidance from John D. at Rennlist this is an open forum. You do not see his moderators or admins going around editing messages to fit their beliefs, this whole situation is absurd.



The personal difficulties between Dave G. and Bob L,. Is not "our" problem or concern they are adults if they have personal indifferences then they need to grow up and deal with it on their own time.



There is an Ignore feature on this forum. If you DO NOT like nor want to read a members post turn them off. It's that simple.



I am sorry to see Dave take this position but it's entirely his decision on what he wants to do. I can't give him the ability to edit members posts because he does not agree with their opinions. It's just not how I want this place to be run. I think open discussion is healthy and adds to the development and new ways of thinking. It's called being open minded folks! If you wish to express your views in more detail or complain please do not hesitate to PM me I am open to hear your views. For now this site is an open forum with a few rules.
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#7

While I understand the desire to keep conflict to a minimum, I think the censorship of this topic was a bit premature.
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#8

I can see what your saying however, Dave did not contact me before making the post. I still have yet to be contacted reguarding the subject. So I removed it "Set invisible" while I try to figure out what was going on. You have to look at it through my eyes. I log on and my moderator quits without notification or justification and makes a post that could potentially get out of hand.
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#9

I take no position on the controversy. However will say the same thing I said on .net:



No matter what the issue, short of child pornography or calls for jihad, you don't just pull an entire thread to avoid a serious problem voiced by an valued contributor - much less a moderator.



Eric, I have supported you from the begining, but this is a mistake. If your desire is to avoid protracted conflict that was overcome by events a long time ago. You should re-post the thread and let whatever happens, happen. This thread can then serve its intended purpose. I am tempted to re-post Dave's comments here, but out of respect for you I will not at this time.



Please reconsider your decision.
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#10

RPM I will turn the post back on however Dave closed the thread when he started it. I had no intentions of permanently deleting the post. I just needed some time to get the details from Dave. I think it is very unfair for him to post a message like that without even attempting to give me a some indication that his message will be posted. I have no problem with him giving a reason for leaving. It's his purgative however If I am hit blind by his decision it's fair for me to research the problem before the situation snowballs into something that could have been fixed if communication was conducted.
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#11

ok - i've had sometime to formulate some thoughts



i too am saddened by dave's departure



for the record, while i knew that dave's post was going to result in the personally motivated attack by raj, prior to its removal, i told eric that, on principal, i had no problem with the expression of his thoughts and feelings - eric wanted to avoid controversy, so i understand the decision he made - i'm not really sure what the best course of action would have been, which is also why i have hesitated this long to comment here



dave has issue with me, that's for sure - some others do too - i am certainly outspoken and opinionated, frequently abrubt and abrasive, and often found to be disagreed with - however, most who have met me, or at least talked to me on the phone, have a much better and more complete perception of me, and can see past that which they read in a distilled and abbreviated version online



that does not mean that they agree with everything i say - far from it - that varies with the individual - some of my best friends are diametrically opposed to many of my thoughts, feelings and beliefs



that's fine - they are only my opinions - people are free to agree or disagree - but, mine are as valid as anybody's - i have a lot of experience to back up much of what i say here, and just because somebody does not agree with them, does not detract from their value - that is what an open forum is for - it is an open exchange of ideas - look at how much progress has happened in the last 2 years - much of it is as a direct result of people saying "it can't be done" - directly or indirectly, many new things have been developed as a result of this exchange, and often i have been in the middle of it - whether or not it was smooth or all warm and fuzzy, in the end, we have more choices now than we did before



if somebody has a problem with something i say, or how i say it, please feel free to contact me directly - email is preferable, over PMs, only because of limited storage space here - many of you have my phone number - please take advantage of it - i no more wish to piss people off than anybody else - it is not my goal or intention to alienate people - on the contrary, i go out of my way to contact people and try to get them involved in things, and hopefully make new friends



as for the hijacking issue, if people would activate their AIM or yahoo connections, i could more frequently take things there that seem off track within the thread - the PM storage here is insufficient, and email is often too difficult, or worse unavailable, because people have not connected their email address to here - this leaves only response within the thread - certainly i am open to suggestions as to how to better resolve that



this is a conversation board in nature - such conversations, and their inevitable wandering is to be expected - many of the tangential things have resulted in new parts or solutions to problems though, so where do you draw the line? - new threads would often detract from the original one - the tangents usually burn out quickly, or find their own course - what is the best answer?



i too will miss dave's contributions - he is a very knowledgeable and clever guy, with a lot of great things to say and share - i relly enjoyed working and socializing with him - i have personally missed him as a friend for over a year now - this is his right though, and as much as i fail to understand it, i have to respect it



to that, this is eric's board - he has the right to define how it is run - he has said he wants a free and open exchange, and as long as things remain civil, there is no profanity, vulgarity, obscenity, or personal attack, that people are pretty much free to say what they want - no opinion is given any more weight than another - people may agree or disagree - they may read it or not - they may comment or not



we have to respect that too, and in the end, it is the same fundamental principal of free speech on which this country was founded - the community spoke some 200 plus years ago and said that people should be free to say what they want, regardless of how many might disagree with them



hopefully we can all find a common ground in this car, and our interest in it, keep personal issues out of the things expressed here, and get on with enjoying the great things this forum has to offer



the bashing may now resume
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#12

Am I tripping or wasn't one of the big selling points of this forum that there would be moderation of posts? What's the point of having a moderator who can't moderate?



The position's currently open...
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#13

No it has never been my intention to let a moderator edit peoples views. This not Eric'sViewsOnThe968.com The moderator like almost every other forum site on the planet is setup to moderate if a thread gets out of hand with vulgarity, obscenity and personal attacks. Also the ability to keep the forums uniform and on topic. If your posting that you are looking for a Pet goat in the Modification forum the moderator will make sure that post gets in th right forum to get the most exposure. That's it.



The big selling point is having a modern forum with all of the high tech functions that are available in modern forum software. A great group of guys to share your passion for the 968. Last but not least a place where EVERYONE is welcome even if you do not agree or like that individual. I have not run into a member yet that I felt needed to be asked to leave. The entire membership base has been a great group of people. I hope and plan to keep it that way. For some reason or another there has always been fueds in the 968 community. Those are not going to happen on this site in public. It's not our busniess.
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#14

Eric- I really appreciate what you're doing here, and want you to know that.
Quote:For some reason or another there has always been fueds in the 968 community.
Maybe I've been in the community longer than you, but I fondly remember a period when 968.net went for years, blissfully free of feuds and contention. Then guess what happened?



With the greatest respect, there's a problem with how things are moderated here: if someone, anyone, comes along who exhibits the traits mentioned in Dave's departure post, nothing can be done about it.
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#15

This is not a high society boys club. I am not going to hold a vote to see who gets to stay or who gets to go. Again if you do not like someone or their rants set them up in your ignore panel



MY CONTROLS> OPTIONS> Manage Ignored Users



Manage your ignored users

This section allows you to set up your ignored users list.

When you add a user to your ignore list, any posts they make will be masked until you specify that you wish to read them. You may not be able to ignore users if they are in a member group which doesn't allow them to be added.
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#16

It's just a bit hypocritical that a forum that claims it won't moderate posts based on difference of opinion just shuts down a very well written and honest resignation by a moderator.



Is the moderator a paid position?
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#17

Clem it was taken down Temporarily for one reason, I needed to find out what was going on. No the moderator is not a paid position. Dave did get a free banner for his company so he did get some financial gain from the position.
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#18

IMHO, there were some posts on 968.net that got very nasty a couple of years ago from a so called M3 OWNER. If there had been a moderator they would have been nipped in the bud. MPO is that I hate to see continuous postings, sometimes I just stop reading them as they can get more and more vicous and serve no purpose. I have been a member of both sites for awhile and have found them to be extremely helpful and the participants in general very friendly and forthright. It certainly is sad to see Dave bow out of this site. I hope that he will find a way to participate, wether here or on 968.net. Eric, keep hanging in there, I can understand "deleting" Dave's post and commend you for reinitating it. Thes sites are supposed to be about 968, Porsches, some philosophy and some laughs but let's not get personal and let us respect on another's opinion whether you agreed or not. END OF SERMON. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#19

Hey guys,

Let's just move on. The damage is done. Now let's concentrate on what the forum is for. We all appreciate everything that Dave has done for us. Great products, great ideas, great insight. we`will miss him and we all wish him the best and invite him back!

The site is still alive with great ideas and info. No need to jump ship quite yet.

Eric, keep up the good work. Thanks for your wisdom and discernment.

This is still the best P-site on the web!!!! Bar none.

Jeff
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#20

As a relatively new member and an internet board veteran, I'll weigh in here.



First of all:



READ WHY ERIC INITIALLY TOOK THE POST OFF THE BOARD. IT WAS BECAUSE HE HADN'T HEARD FROM DAVE DIRECTLY AND WANTED TO GET THE STORY FROM HIM FIRST.



THIS IS ERIC'S RIGHT AS THE OWNER OF THIS BOARD.



OK, now that's out of the way, I have two different examples of bad board moderation, and the unpleasant results.



1. forums.winespectator.com

The Wine Spectator magazine boards of the mid to late 90's. This was an unbelievably vibrant community, worldwide, with thousands of members. Tons of information was exchanged, hundreds of excellent events and get-togethers were scheduled, and it was one of the best "early internet" examples of a bulletin board community. I learned more about wine and made more friends (to this day, getting together next Friday), then in any internet community I've been a part of since.

Yet, it absolutely sucks now, and I will never ever go back.

Why?

The board moderator did absolutely nothing to keep out of control conversations in control. Personal insults, abuse, direct attacks, all went unchecked. It got so out of control that the the subject matter became secondary (a beverage designed to induce pleasure, no less).



Not only did I leave, the ENTIRE community left, save for a handful. They have all gone on to places like the West Coast Wine Network, Robin Garr's page, etc. The Wine Spectator magazine had an amazing entity on their hands, and all it took to completely destroy it was one moderator who didn't do their job.



2. tsx.acurazine.com

This is the total reverse of the above scenario. This was a community I was a part of recently, and have now left for good. Here is a community that is STAGGERINGLY over-moderated. There is a different Mod for every forum, they jump in to topics constantly, will bite new members for being even slightly direct, with such comments as "relax noob" and "you need to spend more time around here before talking like that", etc. Anyone who posts a duplicate video, or news item, or anything like that is IMMEDIATELY jumped on by mods and board memebers alike and the topic is shut down.

Like you know what to search for in a video link! Idiots!

I finally got fed up after getting a rebuke from a mod on the "For Sale" forum, for simply asking B/O for a set of wheels instead of naming a price.



My point is that every internet board needs some form of moderation, just not too severe or too lacking. From my experience, this one is pretty darn mellow. Lots of good info exchanged, a few pointed discussions, a few disagreements, a lot of agreements.



Eric can do what he wants with moderating, its his baby so he has the say. I'm fine with that.
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