[josephsc]

Craigslist ad

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[flash]

yup - heard about it the other day



first, i want to say that i can appreciate the amount of work that went into building this car - i am a bit surprised that it is for sale already, but i also expected it at some point



second, i have recently been doing some criticizing for pounding on sellers who list their stuff here - but, since it isn't listed here, i'm going to take a moment to make an observation and constructive criticism on the ad itself - this is no way is intended to say anything about the car - for the record, i have never seen it, and know very little about it



third, i certainly have no issue with somebody selling their car, and boost feen did a LOT of work and spent a lot of money to build this one, and i have no issue with the price or anything like that - i think this would probably be one heck of a fun car to drive



however



i do take issue with the description - it is misleading - it is not a turbo s, and it is not the same build list - i am not a turbo s expert, but even i can see that there are visible differences - without getting into specifics, i just think it's inappropriate to describe something like that, clearly intended to make the buyer think that it is "identical" - perhaps some rewording like "built as close to factory spec as possible from a standard 968" would be better - pretty tough though, since even the power is so much higher, indicating changes to the turbo setup (more fun though for sure)



it could even be a better car than the factory one, but i think other working would be better - what value is there in back peddling? we all hate it when a car is not as described



side note - i wonder if he installed, and if so where he got, the turbo s axles and gears? - i'd like those myself (wouldn't mind the M030 spindles either)



i'm still bummed that i didn't see the car in ventura when it drove by me - i love to see what other guys can do with these cars

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[Ryan]

Hey, even the factory car was built from a standard 968 if you think about it. I would love to know why he is selling. Some other car caught his eye.

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[flash]

i want to again start by saying that i am not taking any position on the car or the people involved - it is only the wording of that particular ad that i have any issue with



what i meant was something more like "starting from a completed standard car, and working backwards" - i just read an article he wrote about the car, and i found even more things that are his "interpretations" or preferences, that are not "identical" to the factory version - not a true "replica", and definitely not appropriate to outright call it a turbo s



i've been in and around guys who build replicas and restorations for 30 years, and they are fanatical about things right down the the correct hardware - no deviations allowed, and certainly not aftermarket parts in substitution of the original ones



that does not mean it isn't a great car, and perhaps even better than the real deal

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[josephsc]

I guess some people just love working on projects -- and would sell the car once it's done and move on to the next.



Personally, I'm fine with the ad -- there's plenty of liberal interpretations with ads we see on TV and I wouldn't expect the internet to be any different. Buyer beware.



Except I do have an issue with the issue using ALL CAPS. Now that's just plain rude!

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[flash]

lol - i guess the issue for me is just the misleading part - it doesn't come right out and say it's a real one, but it sure seems to try



like i said, i would think that having a prospective buyer start out by thinking it's authentic, or identical, and then finding out that it has many deviations, would only open the door to downward negotiation - in watching many internet sales, i have found that when a buyer finds something less than what they thought, based on what they read in an ad, they immediately look for a large discount - i would think that accurate discloser would help close that door, and ultimately get the seller closer to the desired price

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[Fox944]

[quote name='flash' post='55912' date='Jul 7 2008, 12:44 PM']side note - i wonder if he installed, and if so where he got, the turbo s axles and gears? - i'd like those myself (wouldn't mind the M030 spindles either)[/quote]



How do the Turbo S gears differ from the N/A gear ratios? Are the actual gear ratios diff, or is the ratio in the differential different? taller? Shorter? Do you know what the exact ratios for both are?



Just Curious, i've been thinking of getting a shorter final drive for a while now...but the only one i've found (a custom build) cost an arm and leg.

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[flash]

pete knows that one

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[RS Barn]

Turbo S gears are taller than stock-due to more HP and especially torque-400ft/Lbs@3200rpm

Larger axles are needed as well

Pete

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[Fox944]

[quote name='RS Barn' post='64048' date='Dec 9 2008, 08:06 PM']Turbo S gears are taller than stock-due to more HP and especially torque-400ft/Lbs@3200rpm

Larger axles are needed as well

Pete[/quote]





Thats what i figured, The exact opposite is what i'd like. the oem ring & pinion is 3.778, i found a custom 4.625 ring and pinion, but the guy wanted an arm and leg for it.

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[PorscheDude]

An arm and a leg sounds cheap!



At least he wasn't asking:

An arm

A leg

And some attachments!

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[jaap]

I so wish they had made more of them, so they would have been within a more affordable price range now

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[wjk_glynn]

[quote name='jaap' post='64106' date='Dec 10 2008, 11:43 PM']I so wish they had made more of them, so they would have been within a more affordable price range now[/quote]



They tried... but there were simply insufficient buyers to complete the planned build of 100 cars.



Karl.

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[Duckman]

Karl, was the planned 100 cars for homologation?

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[flash]

i remember reading some place that there was a big DOT problem too, which eliminated the US market

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[wjk_glynn]

[quote name='Duckman' post='64121' date='Dec 11 2008, 08:24 AM']Karl, was the planned 100 cars for homologation?[/quote]



In order to boost 968 sales, Porsche introduced the 3.0-liter, turbocharged 968 Turbo RS in 1993. Meant to compete in the German ADAC GT Cup race series, the Turbo RS used a restrictor plate to limit power to 337 bhp in order to comply with the series’ power-to-weight limit of 8.82 pounds per horsepower. An unrestricted "Le Mans" specification model was also available producing 350 bhp. Sadly, the ADAC GT Cup series collapsed and the result was that Porsche built just four RS models — a prototype in 1992 and three more in 1993.



In parrallel, Porsche announced the limited-edition, 305-bhp 968 Turbo S. The production run was intended to be 100 cars, but that proved to be too ambitious. Officially, 16 cars were made with 14 sold to customers and two retained by the factory. The customers for that type of car ultimately went for the 964 RS 3.8-liter (also built in limited numbers).



That's a long winded way of saying that I don't believe the production run was required to homologate the RS versions.





[quote name='flash' post='64122' date='Dec 11 2008, 08:29 AM']i remember reading some place that there was a big DOT problem too, which eliminated the US market[/quote]



It's not surprising the 968 Turbo S didn't make it to the US because in that era, Porsche often didn't bring any of their 'specials' to the US, not even the relatively high volume 964 RS and 968 CS models. The cost of US certification (DOT & EPA) was prohibitive.



There was one noticable exception... the forty-five 964 Carrera Cup Editions produced in 1992 specifically for the US market. It was based on the 1992 3.6-liter Carrera RS Basic. The plan was to make the bare minimum set of changes so that they could be imported into the US as road-legal cars. These cars would make their way to Andial in Santa Ana, California for conversion into true racecars. After 25 cars were modified by Andial to full US Carrera Cup race specification, things went awry with the series (they couldn't get enough customers). After the series cancellation, all of the modified cars were painstakingly converted back to their original road-legal configuration. They, with the other 20 unmodified cars, were sold off through the dealer network. Pretty amazing story.



Now you might ask why didn't Porsche simply import actual race cars for the series? The problem was that Porsche was in the DOT/EPA’s bad-books at that time. Porsche had imported a number of 959 “racecars” into the US in the late 1980s and when the DOT/EPA got wind of it, they suspected that the cars would be converted to road use, thus circumventing the normal certification process. The 959s were seized and sent back to Germany (Bill Gates supposedly had a 959 stuck in a warehouse in Oakland CA for years). Porsche had its knuckles severely rapped and so it was understandably shy about history repeating itself with the Carrera Cup racecars.



Anyway, it wasn't until the 996 GT3 (Mark2) that Porsche came back to the US market with specials models again.



Karl.

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[PorscheDude]

Some great information there Karl.

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