[Anchorman]

Is the blue tape kit part of the package, or is that only available at extra cost?

What you've done sounds and looks amazing. Now I just need to figure out how I can get it.

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[flash]

lol - that's a super special option package - i had that on there for the bra - i left it on there to keep scuffs off when moving about the car back and forth changing things

all you have to do is call pete (and maybe sell a kidney - i'd start with your son's - he doesn't need it - he has a ferrari)

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[94SilverCab]

Just to clarify a point Flash. You said that the SC package will likely not work with the 12lb SM Flywheel. But would you expect it to work with the 17-18 lb Single Mass Flywheel available through RS Barn?

Jay

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[flash]

lol - that is likely to be the solution - the ironic part is that i almost did that already, the last time i was playing with the clutch - oh well - this will give me the excuse to do a kevlar disk

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[biotechee]

Regarding the LWF, if I had my druthers (which I had no preconceived notions I would...), I would want to see testing without any LWF. Personally, I have zero interest in a LWF at the moment, but I do not begrudge those who do.

Nonetheless, I echo Jay's question - would definitely like to know the impact, if any, with RSB's PoMoSports replica LWF. I hope, at some point, to drive a 968 outfitted with RSB's LWF to see what it feels like. Then who knows- perhaps I will desire one!

Last but not least, congrats on the early success of the SC kit. I applaud your efforts. Wish I could be an early adopter, but unfortunately cannot...

Can't wait to see the testing results and I will probably be fortunate enough to see an installation sooner or later @ RSB.

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[flash]

just to be clear, no LWF will affect output numbers - the only issue i have is when i let off the throttle abruptly - it falls too fast now that there is something else providing a constant load on the engine - a LWF will make the car rev quicker though

we will have a system on a car with a DMF soon enough, and will post charts then - we have zero fear about what this thing will do - after last night, i am totally convinced that i have been right all along, and that this will be the perfect thing for this car

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[biotechee]

Are you doing the dyno runs on an engine dyno, with the engine out of the car and readings coming directly from the crank, or are you doing dyno runs with readings coming from the driven rear hubs?

For further clarification, I am not concerned about the revs falling fast and all that stuff.... If you are testing on a wheel dyno, with a LWF, your numbers will be theoretically higher than the same set-up with a stock DMF. Hence why I would want to see #'s from a truly stock car. More driveline loss in the stock set-up than a set-up with a LWF.

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[Anchorman]

Duh...Bio, look at the photo of the CAR on the dyno. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

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[biotechee]

Saw it B4 I posted...

Guess I should have noted it was somewhat of a rhetorical question. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img]

My initial post was merely stating that I would have rather seen testing in a truly stock situation, then also acknowledged this was not the case. Was not looking for any clarification after that post and was quite alright with the testing procedure and set-up. My follow up question was more to try to get Bob to explain how a LWF does not affect numbers on a wheel dyno after he stated that no LWF will affect output numbers.

Just looking for a little education! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

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[flash]

we remove the issue of drivetrain loss by not trying to calculate it - we will be measuring the drivetrain loss to know exactly what it is - we will not be merely plugging in an arbitrary number - also, we measure what is really at the wheels - those are the charts that will be posted, and not some calculated forward extrapolation

i've done enough runs now to see that the LWF has not resulted in higher numbers, and if anything i suspect it has actually shown lower numbers

pete has had the same experience, and has tested countless cars

non-issue

but we will eventually get charts up there on a totally stock setup anyway - my car is just the development mule

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[biotechee]

Fair enough. Just needed an explanation!

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

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[flash]

no worries - we're going to do everything we can to make sure anybody thinking about this has all the information they want

remember, the goal is to have a truly complete kit - accurate and complete information about it is just as important as the kit itself

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[Ed Russo]

Flash,
I have the RSBarn header and exhaust system on my car. Will your sc kit be configured to work with this system ?
Or do I have to reinstall the stock exhaust system ?

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[flash]

this system will be tuned for the stock exhaust - there is no plan to tune for the header in the immediate future, and it would require an entirely new tuning process, and another 3-4 weeks of testing before we could sanction it - further, it is very possible that the header will push us out of the range of the injectors, and would almost certainly involve changes in fuel pressure

the cat-back will not be a problem

assuming you don't have emissions issues in your state, i would reinstall the OEM header and cat, hang onto the RS Barn header for a while, install the RS Barn cat-back, and wait for further developments

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[Rudolf968]

Altough I cannot have it, I sympasize for the effort and knowledge, to develop this kit, it really looks very good.
But I'm just wondering about 1 point that's still not discussed, and that's fuel consumption.
High power turbo kits are hughe drinkers of fuel. For a racecar thats ok, but for a daily street-car ...
I'm curious how this super-charger affects the fuelconsumption.
In Belgium 1 liter costs actually +/- 1,83 USD.
Just wondering ... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]

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[flash]

technically a low boost centrifugal supercharged car like this should get BETTER fuel economy, as you are producing more power more efficiently, and able to get to cruising speed with less throttle

the reality is often that because there is more power, you tend to use it more, which defeats any thought of ecomomy

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[flash]

looks like we have to push our deposit timeline up a bit - i just found out that if we are to have the head units in time for hershey, we have to put our order in in about a week - whatever we have deposits on, will get in on the first batch - after that, you're looking at may delivery at the earliest

we've gotten a couple of deposits now, though of the dozen or so people who contacted us saying "i definitely want one - when do i send money?" we are surprisingly short

we are definitely going to see our projected outputs - any fear of that not happening died last night - even with just the gross tuning, i was easily able to get well over 245ft/lbs and well over 250hp AT THE WHEELS (compared to the average stock readings of 185-190ft/lbs and 195hp), and on 91 octane, and all very safely - that's about a 28% increase (i wanted to estimate 25% but pete made me go with 20%) - so, we have already exceeded our projections, and i'm going for more

completed tuning should add a bit more to that - i expect to be at about 250ft/lb peak and a bit over 255hp peak (at the wheels), but the big news is that it will develop that much earlier than the power normally develops, and over a wider band - the torque comes on early, peaks early, and stays there all the way up

if you are waiting to see charts or something before putting down a deposit, don't - the final charts even on my car will likely not be published until just about the time i have to pack things up to ship, and that will be too late to make the first run - the charts on a completely stock second car probably won't happen until late april

if you are expecting to walk up at hershey and walk away with a system, think again - if you haven't prepaid it, it won't be there - we are not bringing a bunch of them with us - they are just too expensive to do that - in fact, we will only be bringing those that are pre-sold - these systems are built to order

i'm waiting on the files to be sent to me so i can see if i can put something preliminary up for you that makes sense, but the bottom line is that you really only have about a week to put down a deposit to get in on the first batch

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[flash]

ok - please read all of this BEFORE looking at the chart - it really will help

let's see if i can explain this a bit, so that i avoid the relentless attempts to compare anything to anything, or get into endless dyno discussions about peak numbers or anything stupid like that (so don't even bother to post those kinds of comments or questions)

this is a SuperFlow Dyno - it is incredibly accurate in how it reads across the graph - you will see that the lines are very smooth, unlike the jagged stuff you see on the less sophisticated dynos like a dynojet - the guys i am working with used to run a dynojet, and in fact were involved in the development of it (they had unit number 2), so they know very well what it does and how, and how this one works relative to it

that being said, SuperFlow will tell you it reads 5-6% lower than a dynojet

the guys i am working with say in reality it generally reads about 3.5% lower than a dynojet

so, for those of you who insist on comparing things, i'll let you break out your calculators and play, but really it's a waste of time - i realize everybody want to see charts though, so against my better judgement, i am posting this VERY PRELIMINARY chart of a run that i am sure will be lower than what we can get in the finished kit

the purpose of even posting this chart at this time is 2 fold:

1. it is to show that yes, we actually made boost and power, and more than the 20% we promised, even though we are not done cleaning up the tuning

2. to show the A/F curve we are already seeing, and the power we already have even with this very preliminary tune

without further ado....................this is measured at the wheels!

   

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[biotechee]

What's your estimated driveline loss... 15%, 17%, etc.?

Curves look nice. The next runs, after further tuning should really look nice!

You're hitting max torque at between 3.5 and 4psi. Do you think you will be able to increase that to hit peak at closer to 5 psi and further up in the RPM range, of course without sacrificing the area under? In other words, peak torque later but a similar fast ramp up, with a steady, long plateau?

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[flash]

lol - here we go

everybody needs to stop thinking about peak numbers or flywheel numbers - that is just advertising hooey and we won't get caught up in it - we will never even speak to those - there are way too many factors involved - wheel weights, tire pressures, strap tensions and such can alter driveline loss numbers as much as 5% - pointless conversations about such things at this time are not on our agenda

so, we are not even thinking about it - those are rear wheel measurements - no driveline calculation required - you only factor that in to get to the flywheel, which is NOT anything we want to even begin to do at this time - no wheel dyno reads flywheel, and they all do some sort of math to get there, and they vary so widely (based on things like whether it's inertia type or eddy current) that there is no point in thinking about it

whew

we are deliberately trying to push the peak torque point DOWN the curve and lengthen the torque curve - torque and hp will always cross at 5252 - it's a math thing - what we want is big torque from 2.5k to 5k - we aren't thinking about anything up top - what happens happens, and as long as there isn't some big falloff that indicates a problem, we really don't care

we also are not looking at the horsepower numbers, but rather the torque numbers - anybody who knows anything about cars knows that horsepower numbers are for kids in rice grinders who like to talk about irrelevant numbers - torque is what makes a car go fast - our goal is purely to provide a big broad torque curve

look at the curve - look at the shape - look at the breadth - look at the average - don't get hung up on details that mean nothing, especially right now

lol - and then look at the tire marks i made when i hit it in the middle of second gear and fried the big 285s

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