[flash]

first, i don't see where you said it was a 3.0 - you said it was a 951 - that would make it apples and oranges - the difference between a 951 engine and a 968 engine, is huge - i don't know enough about the S2 to know how many differences there are between its block and the 968 - i know there were internal differences in parts though

and no, i've never heard of a 968 engine with more than 500

i'm glad your car runs well though - perhaps we should stop by and see it run on our way to hershey

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Ahhh, you thought I was running a 2.5. I could see how you would think that. Cant tell from looking at it. Its 3.0 tho(104mm bore). Sure man, your more than welcome to come check it out. Maybe Ill pull the 968 out of storage. The differences between a 951 engine, and 968 engine is huge. The 968 turbo s is essentially a 951 engine with more bore, and longer stroke. Im running the 968 crank in the 951, its about 5 lbs lighter than the s2 crank. 500+ whp has been done. Record for a 2.5 is 638 rwhp. I think most guys dont tune for more than 500, because its really just bragging rights. Its not very streetable too far north of 500. Requires huge turbo, and racing fuel. It is attainable nonetheless. Im in the 4's right now, as far as HP goes. Im mid to high 4's right now in TQ, which was my goal. Again HP was not number one priority. Im getting those numbers on 55 lb injectors, and a stock fuel pump, on about 16 psi. The tuning has pretty much just been to get it running safely throughout the power band at this point, havent begun tuning for max power. Im expecting more when I do the 968, because Ill be going with a vitesse stage 5 kit, which is a bigger turbo, 83 lb injectors, and upgraded fuel pump.

This is a 2.5 with 500+, can be done with much less work, and boost on a 3,0.

This is what I shoot for when building a 3.0 turbo. Look familiar?

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[flash]

i'm looking forward to seeing it - i've yet to see one run right - none of them seem to idle well, they don't run well in traffic, and just are no fun to drive unless you have your foot in it

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[Monstrous4Banger]

" i'm looking forward to seeing it - i've yet to see one run right - none of them seem to idle well, they don't run well in traffic, and just are no fun to drive unless you have your foot in it"

Well I cant guarantee youll like the gearing, suspension, etc. I like it a whole lot tho. The KW setup is really amazing. Performs like bilsteins when needed, but doesnt ride like a covered wagon. A really nice compromise between performance, and comfort IMO. The rear bushings are polybronze, so its not real quiet, but has razor sharp response. It runs, and idles great. Only issue its had, was breaking the engine in. It doesnt like castrol....something to do with the new "friction modifiers" they are mixing in these days. The rings didnt wanna seat at first, switched to a break in oil, and things are seating nicely now.

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[ds968]

Ok, so without AC ( at least, I presume the AC had to be sacrificed [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img] ), when in the world do you drive a car that produces that kind power and related heat...in Arizona ?! Guessing 4 am to 5 am might be the only time ? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]

BTW, stunning engine bay , factory look all around.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Nope, AC is still there and in great order. I drive anytime day or night. Last summer it ran a little bit hot with the AC on in the dead of summer at high noon, in traffic. Every 944/68 Ive ever driven here in the dead of summer runs hot, when sitting in traffic too long, <b>with AC on</b>. Even bone stock. Since summer, Ive put in a brand new radiator, and fan switch. My memory fails me ATM which switch it was, the low temp one. Weather is nice here, but with this new setup, Ive yet to raise the temp above the first bar on the gauge, under any load. Well see what it does this summer. Im expecting the temp to rise in summer with AC on, but considering how low it is now, Im not a bit worried. It was fine before the cooling upgrades.

Just to clarify. the above pic is an actual 968 turbo s. One of the originals. I wanted to show it as an example of how the 968 ts, is really familiar to the 951 engine. Ill be doing my 68 like this, but different air filter, and MAF. It will look mostly identical to my 951. I may go with a "stealth" aftermarket MAF, and use the airbox, just for that OEM look.

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[flash]

when everything is working properly, even with the AC on, a 968 does not run hot - hot running is a sign of a problem - the car should run between a touch above 9 o'clock (about 200 degrees) to 10 o'clock (212 degrees) in 100 degree heat with the AC on full and sitting in traffic

basically a car should always run about 100 degrees above ambient temp, regardless of any other normal driving condition, and it should be able to do that until the fuel runs out

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[RS Barn]

How are you running 500+ hp at 16psi when 968TS had 305HP at 1.05Bar?
Dyno charts says "Lots of Boost"
Turbo S claim was massive torque at 3500rpm. Almost 360ft/lbs

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Well more like 115 in these parts. Every porsche Ive ever owned ran a bit warm out here with AC on sitting in traffic, in the dead of summer. Even NA's. My 3.0 951 doesnt. This summer it was running fine. I cant get it to run above the first bar for nothin right now. These cars really dont care for such dry, hot extremes. No climate even remotely like this in Germany. Things dry up and crumble quickly, paint fades fast, plastic pieces disintegrate, belts need replacing sooner, and they run a bit hot in traffic, with the AC on, in 115+ weather. AZ cars dont rust, but upkeep can be more. A garage is a must. I wont even park mine, in a parking lot without the cover on during the day. The solution to cooling is to upgrade the radiator, and put a low temp fan switch in. If you want to do research on how things will perform in hot weather, come here, or death valley. Getting these cars to keep cool in 115+ with AC on can be an issue. Phoenix or death valley are two good test areas for runnin in the heat. If it stays cool here itll stay cool anywhere. My 3.0 ran fine in the summer, no overheating or anything, but the needle would be a bit higher than usual. I have no doubt that if it wasnt overheating, or even really running "too" hot last summer, with the setup I have now the needle wont make it past halfway. I cant say with 100% certainty, because this radiator, and fan switch were replaced in Oct. The radiator went out, and I figured what the heck, upgrade. It was the original radiator. 90k or so on it. Ill let you know this summer. Flash: if you come out and see the car, I think driving it and seeing how cool it stays now would convince you enough. If not, you could always come test it in the summer. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

When is hershey anyway? 100+ days are really just around the corner here. You might be coming through when its 100+.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

"How are you running 500+ hp at 16psi when 968TS had 305HP at 1.05Bar?
Dyno charts says "Lots of Boost"
Turbo S claim was massive torque at 3500rpm. Almost 360ft/lbs "

Im not. Im in the 400's. Im seeing 450ish ft/lbs on 16 psi. That dyno slip I posted is a 2.5. Just an example, of what a 2.5 is capable of, let alone a 3.0+. Like I said, <b>huge</b> power is attainable, but not very streetable. 5-600 is about max for a street car IMO. That can be done on a 3.0+ on pump gas. Depends if you want torque, or horsepower. If you want to break 500 HP, install a 16v. If breaking 500 ft/lbs is more you preference, install the 8v. youll hit it in the tq band, much sooner than the 16v. I prefer low end tq for the street. No cat helps a lot too. LOL A bigger modified turbo helps too. So does the MAF, 55 lb injectors, etc. The 968 will be more of a monster. Havent decided whether to go to a 3.2, or a 3.1 darton mid sleeve. Im plenty happy where the 951 is sitting, dont care to push it more, 400's is good. Easier on the transaxle too. I will tune it again for power, and slips to show off to people who dont believe me. The 968 tho.....the goal is to add 100 rwhp, and retain streetability.

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[Fox944]

monstrous....any dyno charts showing your AFR?

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[ds968]

Before I changed the switch to the lower temp one, on the OE switch both my 944s and my 968 ran between 9 as a low point and actually close to t 10 o'clock mark . In bumper to bumper traffic they were just at the edge of the red zone.. Once I changed to the lower temp switch five years ago, it almost never gets above 9 even in the worst conditions, and on normal driving stays right at the bottom edge of the 8 o'clock line. So not sure how anyone with an OE switch in their cars can run so cool. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Yeah, out here in the desert oe switches dont run so cool. Just the way it is.

No dyno slips right now. I will be taking it in soon. Its still a pretty fresh engine, maybe two thousand miles on the break in. First thousand we were getting issues with blow by, and eventually figured out it was the oil we were using. Everything is seating fine now, but I wanna put a couple thousand more on it before I do the final tune. The first was just for the AFR, I didnt scan it for posting. Probably could, the shop should still have a copy. It does run slightly rich. It wasnt tuned to run at lambda. I idle at about 14:0-14:2. There are a few reason for purposely running slightly rich.

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[333pg333]

So from what I can see you have a stock cam, throttle body, intake, intercooler and you're making well over 400whp and 450lb at 16psi? That's impressive. What turbo, exhaust? Mighty impressive.

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