[paulzebo]

Has anyone used one of the Gates T152RB High Performance timing belt listed? I just did my belts and will be purchasing spares for a winter project. Cheap insurance going with the T152RB or unnecessary snake oil?

 

GATES T152 {#250152, 2591006, 5094} PowerGrip Premium OE Timing Belt; 1" x 44 21/32" (119 Teeth) <a class="" href="https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4493&cc=1263776">Info</a>
<span>Interference engine application</span>
 

GATES T152RB High Performance <a class="" href="https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7088620&cc=1263776">Info</a>
<span>Blue; Interference engine application</span>
 

 

Here's Gates claim:

 

Gates High Performance Timing Belts are incredibly strong and extremely heat resistant. Constructed of HNBR elastomeric composites, Gates High Performance Timing Belts are as much as 300% stronger than stock belts and deliver up to three times the heat resistance. You can count on them to hold up to the rigors of high horsepower, which is extremely important with interference engines.

• Superior construction provides up to three times the heat resistance.
  
• Gripping teeth reinforced with aramid and nylon rubber minimize wear.
  
• As much as 300% stronger than the standard aftermarket belt.
  
• Withstand the rigors of high horsepower.
  
• <i>Note: Belt Color May Differ (May Be Black or Blue)</i>
  

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[RS Barn]

I just installed one on my 330 HP Monster motor. Cheap insurance.

Belt feels much-much stiffer than standard Gates belt. 

BTW-Look at the pretty cams.

Not sure why picture self rotated. (I fixed to Pete - JK)

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[Ryan]

Now if they only made one for the balance shafts we would really have something. 

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[Ernie]

I'm just about due to change my timing belt. I wonder if this belt is appropriate for a stock engine vs a high performance engine? I am also curious as to the durability of the higher performance belt? I would clearly opt for it, if it could buy me another year or two, before doing the timing belt again. Suggestions?

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[Bulti]

@RSBarn: Me like!!

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[ds968]

I understand at one point Gates made a kevlar reinforced balance belt but not a timing belt ( odd ...) . That balance belt may still be in production. Maybe this timing belt now employs some of the same technology in addition to al the other enhancements they utilized in the composite .

With a 315 hp , 300 ft-lbs force behind that gas pedal those of us who have the stage 3 D1R SC'd cars should definitely look into this . But even for N/A cars, why wouldn't anyone opt for the high-performance belt ; I can't imagine there is a single downside to it, only benefits and greater insurance against the risk of breakage.


I wonder if Porsche dealers now sell only this new belt for the 968 ? I expect they would, if for no other reason but to charge even more money for it .

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[flash]

belt technology is a very funny thing.  it is not intuitive.  stronger does not necessarily mean better.  often it means less compliant.  this can cause failures under rapid changes in belt speed.  it can also mean less heat dissipation.  on the other hand, it might mean less stretch over time.

 

i wouldn't want to be one of the guys in the first 2 years of a new belt being around.  i would let somebody else find out the hard way if it was better or not.  we have already seen enough of these fail, and that was with belts we "knew" were ok.  gates is a great company, and i have always preferred their belts, but on this one, if it were me, i would want more info on the construction, polymer cross linking tendencies, elasticity ratings, heat ratings, yada yada (keep in mind that i am now sitting in the cheap seats on this, so take this for what it's worth)

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[ds968]

Yes, tough call - when it comes to rubber compounds " stiffer " does not always translate to greater longevity / durability . But Gates is as good as it gets so I have to believe their newly developed belt has been tested to death ( as have all their other belts ) and most of what they assert is probably true .

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[968workaholic]

Interesting, I would like to know more about how ozone affects the base rubber compound over time vs the standard belt. If it could withstand ozone for a few years longer without deteriorating then it would be a major plus

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[ds968]

For the regular belts, Gates stated on their website, the "safe" shelf life for timing belts was 6 years from the manufacture date, and advised all their distributors / commercial buyers to discard the belts if not sold within that timeline. So six years of ozone exposure PRIOR to installation was supposedly ok, subsequent to which Gates recommended tne manufacturers' suggested replacement intervals should be observed. So if they're claiming this new belt is 300% stronger, does that mean its shelf life is 18 years after which one should still expect 60 K miles, or "X" amount of additional years , whichever comes first ? Heck, that'd be almost as good as having a timing chain, lol. However, the common wisdom of this forum is to reduce whatever replacement intervals are published by at least 25 %,, but if this new super-belt is even close to as durable as they claim it is, the additional cost will buy someting rather priceless : peace of mind .

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[ds968]

Here are a couple of articles on the characteristics of rubber composites manufactured specifically for cars.. and although these are tire-specific (  or,"tyre" for you chaps across the pond  :closedeyes:  )  this concept transcends to belts as well.  When I spoke to Gates manufacturing  engineering manager, he said that the mileage-age ratio is a 90-10 factor, so replacing the belt at a 4 or 5 year interval, regardless of mileage, is a totally overboard reaction, but as we say here ;YMMV, so replace it as often as you think you should  and based on what the others here recommend, because it's tough to argue against the "newer is better"  concept ..but as was the case with the Michelin tires, Gates tests also showed that a belt with 5 years on it and a brand new belt had absolutely no difference in wear & tear after the same amount of test mileage placed on them.   IIRC, they loaded the equivalent of 25 K miles at a constant 3 K RPM on those two belts .

 

http://www.topgear.com.ph/news/industry-...3-20170128

 

http://www.powerwheelsmagazine.com/2017/...ance-does/       

 

Having already suffered a belt break, I'm going to replace mine earlier than recommended just because I don't want to throw away another $ 5 - $ 6 K,  but there is no friggin' way I'm doing that after 4 years if I have less than 20K miles on the odo since the last belt replacement .  With sub-20K low mileage, 8 years is probably my threshold.  I'm at that point now so will change the belt with new Gates super-belt in the next few weeks .        

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[Ernie]

I'm wondering if anyone has tried the racing belt yet? I'm at just about 5 years and 15K on my timing belt, so it's time to change mine. I may just go with a standard gates, but wanted to see if there is any feedback on the "newer" belt.

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[stephen844]

It has been a year now for this topic.  What is the best and most reliable timing belt and balance shaft belt ?

I may do mine again this year.

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[94SilverCab]

It has been a year now for this topic.  What is the best and most reliable timing belt and balance shaft belt ?

I may do mine again this year.

The consensus seems to be Gates over Conti, the jury is out on the high performance belt.

 

Make sure they check the manufacture date.

 

Jay

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[ds968]

Time for me to change the belts and I'm still not sure if I'm going to try the new belt or stay with the basic one. I'll contact Gates and ask them to address what Flash noted in his post re the potential of the stiffer belt being less compliant and the theoretical effect on rapid changes in belt speed. Gates engineers their belts reportedly better than anyone else out there so I'm certain they must have taken that particular factor into consideration, especially for this new belt considering the expected application is high performance - racing environments where rapid / abrupt changes in speed are commonplace . But also not sure about what effect the expansion of our aluminum engines when hot may have on a belt which has almost no give .Porsche indicated this was the only reason these cars were not fitted with a timing chain. I have spoken to Gates in the past and they have always been very helpful , so we'll see what they have to say about this. I'm inclined to go with the new one even though it does not have enough history, just because it's from Gates, but then again the time tested basic one has earned a pretty good reputation, albeit mostly in NA engines ..with a stage 3 SC and with my tendency to shift just right under the redline, very, very frequently, " slamming " that belt too often might be better served by the new & improved model .

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[94SilverCab]

New belts are next Spring for me...I'd like some real world feed back by then.

 

Jay

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[Ernie]

DS, I would be very interested in what Gates has to say about the high performance belt. I am going to get mine done shortly and would opt for it if they have taken the concerns noted, into consideration.

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[ds968]

I'm going to contact them on Monday, so I'll post soon as I get the info ..

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[ds968]

Emailed them first thing Monday , no response  yet.    I called them this morning and left a message.  We' ll see if by Friday someone replies..  

 

In the meantime, if anyone else wants to give it a shot here's the contact info ( for the automotive belts / products customer support division ) from their main website : 

 

GATES AUTOMOTIVE REPLACEMENT & SUPPORT

<p style="color:rgb(45,45,45);font-family:'ITC Franklin Gothic', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">Includes passenger cars, light trucks, marine, grounds maintenance and recreation.

• <a>(303) 744-5651</a>
  
• apateam@gates.com
  

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[ds968]

Still no response.. I'm very disappointed, clearly a different crew there now, than those who responded promptly and were so helpful many years ago..    I almost considered suggesting the forum could consider a group buy but then felt if they're not fully confident this new belt is completely suitable for the 868 aluminum engine it may scare them off even more ; it's easy to deal with a one off failure claim , blaming it on improper installation, or other components ( rollers, tensioner , etc ) issues , but a potential epidemic failure in several cars could cause a world of liability problems for them,    In any event, if you guys have better luck with them please post conclusions , but I'm ordering the " basic", time-tested belts which have done perfectly fine in my SC'd cars for years.. 

 

p.s the one which broke many many moons ago in my car was a Conti  belt  .. reportedly not among the most reliable of timing belt brands..    :glare:       

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