[ds968]

This is so frustrating ..I contacted a few sources and they all said they don't keep belts in stock so no way of checking the age of the belts until they get the order in from their suppliers ( but I have to first place the order for that ) and even then their suppliers have no means of sorting through what they'll send and selecting it by checking the code on the belt - basically a " no time, and no interest " to do that - so they'll send whatever is gathering dust on their shelves. The sellers did make a point of letting me know that belts have a "safe" minimum six year shelf life BEFORE they are installed in the car and utilized for 60 K miles or fifteen years whichever comes first . This is based on Gates' assertion that the wear and tear ratio is a 90 % mileage , and 10 % age factor once the belt is encased ..which is what Gates told me as well many years ago ; according to them the way these belts are manufactured with all the tech advances, the rubber compound does not sufficiently dry, crack, etc . the point of compromising the belt for decades.. ..unless it's left out in the Arizona summer sun for a few years. Right, and yet no one ageees to give me an irrevocable letter of credit to guarantee the $ 8,000 my engine rebuilt is going to cost when the belt breaks before that alleged super- longevity period they're so confident of, at least until the mileage reaches 60 K.


So I'm going to call Sunset and Pelican and see if by chance they stock any and can check the age code for me before shipping it out , and if not , I may either 1) order 3 separate belts from 3 separate sources , keep the most recently mfg date one, and return the other two , or 2) bite the bullet and order the new high performance belt , and if by chance it damages the rollers or tensioner or snaps because it's too rigid , and grenades the engine , I'll take Gates to small claims court for the engine repair ..considering it's a relatively new type of belt I might have a fighting chance, although the defense always is : it must have been improperly installed , can't possibly be our belt .    

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[Kim]

Take 'em to court. Go ahead, make my day.

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[Ernie]

So ds, did gates ever respond to you regarding the racing belt? It's amazing how much of a PITA this whole process can become. Your 3 belt approach may be the best route for us to go?!

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[ds968]

Hey Ernie, no response from Gates whatsoever.. 

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[PChem]

Here is a link with specifics about EPDM rubber belts in automotive applications:

https://www.bluestar.com/get_informed/ar...ntine-belt

Excerpts from this link:

"Serpentine belts are made of high quality reinforced rubber. The lifespan of the serpentine belt depends mostly on the material it is made of. Older Neoprene rubber belts generally last about 50,000 miles, while newer belts made from Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer (EPDM) rubber will last up to 100,000 miles."

 

"An aged belt may become shiny or glazed in appearance. It may also begin to harden and lose some of its flexibility. An aged belt made of EPDM rubber may also show excessive wear in the ribs and valleys of the belt which can lead to slippage. An EPDM belt will not crack like traditional Neoprene rubber belts. Instead, it will wear and lose rubber similar to the way a tire wears out. EPDM belts need to have the rib valleys inspected with a belt wear gauge. All of these potential issues can be easily detected during a routine inspection."

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[Cloud9...68]

Here is a link with specifics about EPDM rubber belts in automotive applications:

https://www.bluestar.com/get_informed/ar...ntine-belt

Excerpts from this link:

"Serpentine belts are made of high quality reinforced rubber. The lifespan of the serpentine belt depends mostly on the material it is made of. Older Neoprene rubber belts generally last about 50,000 miles, while newer belts made from Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer (EPDM) rubber will last up to 100,000 miles."

 

"An aged belt may become shiny or glazed in appearance. It may also begin to harden and lose some of its flexibility. An aged belt made of EPDM rubber may also show excessive wear in the ribs and valleys of the belt which can lead to slippage. An EPDM belt will not crack like traditional Neoprene rubber belts. Instead, it will wear and lose rubber similar to the way a tire wears out. EPDM belts need to have the rib valleys inspected with a belt wear gauge. All of these potential issues can be easily detected during a routine inspection."

Interesting - thanks.  Anybody know if the current standard Gates belts are made of EPDM?

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[ds968]

Interesting - thanks.  Anybody know if the current standard Gates belts are made of EPDM?

I wanted to ask that question as well, but I am in complete disbelief no one at Gates responds to inquiries - why the heck do they even list a customer service email and phone number ? Unless they only respond to " customers " who ar distributors / wholesalers ..


So Pete is still the only one here with the new belt , right ? Pete, where did you get the belt from , not sure who carries them ? Maybe they can shed some light on the EPDM question as well ..

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[paulzebo]

I've been running it for three months. Available through Rock Auto.

 

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[Ernie]

I was thinking that with the racing belt...at least all of them have been manufactured recently, so you are not dealing with ones that have been sitting around. I would still rather have some longer term usage feedback. Decisions, decisions!

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[ds968]

I think I'm just going to order the new high-performance one, from Rock Auto ( can't find it anywhere else ).   The problem is I also need a balance belt so I have to order that one from somewhere else, Rock Auto only shows  Conti balance belts,for our cars ;  no Gates, nor even Dayco.     

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[Waylander]

They are soooooo much cheaper in the US

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[ds968]

Does anyone know who carries Gates BALANCE belts ? Just trying to save some time before I may have to start calling numerous sources and find out where I can buy one - just weird that both of ( the only two ) places I checked already both have Gates timing belts , but only Conti balance belts ..

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[paulzebo]

Here you go    https://www.autohausaz.com/catalog/k/por...s=r&page=1

Ever since FLASH said Gates is the best. that's all I ordered.

 

 

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[ds968]

Great, thanks !! Ordered it just now, Funny they don't have a Gates timing belt on their site , just the Dayco one . Dayco is not bad, but I want to stick with Gates . Still have not decided which one to order though, although as I mentioned I'm leaning 75% toward the high performance one, with the other 25 % pulling me back and telling me " are you sure you don't want to buy something that's been time tested as extremely reliable , for more than two decades ? ". And then again the other 75 % is shouting back " but the car is supercharged and on top of all that power and torque , you also snap that belt with every shift at just about the redline , are you sure you don't want something much, much more durable than the regular belt ?! ". Damn voices in my head ! ;-)

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[Waylander]

Just ordered a new Gates and it’s turned up in a plastic bag, no box, no batch number, no date, guess what it’s going straight back for a refund

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[ds968]

Just ordered a new Gates and it’s turned up in a plastic bag, no box, no batch number, no date, guess what it’s going straight back for a refund

That sucks. And yeah belts here seem to be a lot cheaper than the ROW - average $ 25 for a timing belt and about $ 45 for a balance belt ( Gates that is , not sure if Dayco or Conti are even cheaper ). The high-performance timing belt is about $ 65 .

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[Ernie]

I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but how many voices do you hear, ds??? LOL! I may go racing belt for the timing belt and standard Gates balance shaft belt? Just call me the canary in the coal mine... unless of course, Max talks me out of it! Will keep you updated.

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[ds968]

Well if Pete got the racing belt I doubt Max will talk you out of it . The ONLY major concern I have if it is ideed that stiff and any expansion of the engine while hot can put undue stress the rollers if there is no " give " . Maybe asking Max or Pete about that specific point will put both of our canary minds at ease ..

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[Waylander]

Well if Pete got the racing belt I doubt Max will talk you out of it . The ONLY major concern I have if it is ideed that stiff and any expansion of the engine while hot can put undue stress the rollers if there is no " give " . Maybe asking Max or Pete about that specific point will put both of our canary minds at ease ..

 

 

no need to worry about that, the tensioner is hydraulic, so no concerns about expansion, the belt will get longer with heat anyway 

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[ds968]

Damn the torpedoes !   I'm  getting the High-Performance belt ; if Gates claims it's 300% more durable than the regular one and 3X the longevity under stress, even if that assertion is exaggerated   ( theory and short term testing does not always translate to what happens in reality, particularly since there has not been nearly enough time for them to support that claim with empirical / sufficient historical data )  even if it's a 50% more durable belt , coupled with the fact that you're also not getting a belt that sat on a shelf for six years or more , that's good enough of a reason for me.           

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