[Ed Russo]

As a heads up.

The May issue of Excellence has a article entitled 964 vs.968.

Haven't had a chance to read it yet.



Regards,

Ed Russo

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[banditsc]

[quote name='Ed Russo' post='32170' date='Mar 9 2007, 04:12 PM']As a heads up.

The May issue of Excellence has a article entitled 964 vs.968.

Haven't had a chance to read it yet.



Regards,

Ed Russo[/quote]



I heard about that, I went to Barnes and Noble yesterday, but they only had April editions.

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[bob blackwell]

Thanks for the heads up! Both of these cars are in my local Roadrunner Region, PCA and both are owned by ladies in the Club. The 964 belongs to our Vice-president Liz Shaw and the 968 belongs to a very supportive member for a long time, Linda Wolcott. Looking forward to reading the article. thanks again, Bob Blackwell.

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[ether_joe]

didn't they just do this?



oh wait that was 964 and 9 *twenty* 8.





I dig the comparos. . . they seem to have this need to declare a winner though. The cars are different enough, that I think any idea of a winner is meaningless.

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[Darth Vadar]

Well, I managed to "Plow" thru the informative, albeit wordy article.



More complimentary to our 968's than the last effort.



Seemed to make a lot out of the 11 hp diff in the two cars.... went strictly by the Porsche stated performance... 5.5 0 > 60 for the 964 and 6.3 0 > 60 for the 968... no actual performance test, side by side. Guess they figured it was a moot point. Prolly so.



A lot of "praise" for the "chting" of the closing door of the 964. Never did say what the door of a 968 sounds like... oh, and the construction of the dash gauges... 964 "watchmaker quality" vs. 968 "?" implied less quality.



Did admit that in stock trim, the 968 got around a road course much more handily than the 964, esp. for most drivers... a plus for the fewer problem areas of the 968...



Soooo.. why no "Five laps of the local track" and see who comes in first? Hmmm... let's not challenge the venerable 911 too far, shall we???



Some grudgingly nice words for the more modern interior of the 968 vs. the 964...



Final thoughts... While admitting that the 968 has some "cult" interest due to it's rarity, our 968's are "fully valued" in the used car market, while the 964's are "a better value"... they had to get that last lick in!!!

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[flash]

yup - no chance they are ever going to change that position either, regardless of how many rings we run around them on any course



no worries - makes grudge racing much easier to make money at - nobody wants to play against the pool shark - better to keep it under wraps

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[TheMirror]

Just read the whole thing, and jumped online to comment.



To me, quite fair and very very accurate in my opinion.



These were the exact 2 cars I narrowed it down to in my search for a 1st Porsche. I bought every 968 book I could find, as well as Adrian Streather's awesome 964 owner's guide.



I drove several examples of both. My conclusions were almost exactly the same. The 964 seemed slightly better made, had superior torque and pace, and was very exciting with that rear engined layout. It handled well, and did seem to have a bigger "sense of occasion". It was also really really small, had zero luggage space (a particular issue with the 964), was more expensive and promised to stay that way. It also has significant left front footwell intrusion, which for me was an immediate TKO due to a bad back.



Thus, on to the 968 for me. Considerably less sonorous engine, with less punch, yet utterly superb dyanmics, vastly superior cockpit room, no footwell intrusion, and every bit of that transaxle balance Zach Mayne refers to in the article. Its what I like most about it, wagging that tail around with that superb bit of extra weight back there. The 968 was definitely the more logical choice for me, plus being cheaper by half. So I bought one.



Passionately speaking, I likely could have ended up with the 964 if it didn't have that footwell intrusion.



This article called it fair from my chair, but just one man's opinion.



-Mirror

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[RPM]

Rats. Usually I am one of the first to get the new issue...

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[Mark]

Mirror, I went through the same process before I bought the 968 to go with the wife's 968. I drove a few 964s and 993s and figured out that I could not find a good driving position in either the 964 or 993. All that driving of my wife's 968 to look at those cars made me realize that the 968 was a nice car and with a few performance mods it would be a really nice car. Price wasn't really a factor in my decision I just liked the 968 that much more.

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[chris]

[quote name='Darth Vadar' post='32295' date='Mar 12 2007, 07:26 PM']Final thoughts... While admitting that the 968 has some "cult" interest due to it's rarity, our 968's are "fully valued" in the used car market, while the 964's are "a better value"... they had to get that last lick in!!![/quote]

Ok, say you have $20k to shop with.



968 for $20k = Low mileage, pristine condition, prob M030



964 for $20k = High mileage (80k to 150k miles), good/ok condition, not heavily optioned

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[flash]

we can beat this one to death, but it won't go anywhere - they don't like the 968 - they like the 911



clearly the 968 will beat the 964 in nearly any comparison - it is a more comfortable car, with more useability, and is easier to drive - it gets better fuel economy - it feels more solid, and predictable, with far fewer rattly aircooled noises - the cabin is more logical and comfortable and has a lot more space



AND it will be faster around the track



a lot of 964 owners will tell you the 964 feels faster than the 968 - the 968 does not give you the sense of urgency a 964 will - but, it is not a sportscar either - it is a GT - it is fully loaded with full power everything, AC, yada yada - the 964 has no driveline, and all the power and weight at the rear, and is usually manual windows, etc (though all was available) - there is a feeling of more power than there really is - it's the nature of a rear engined car - 914s are the same way - 120hp feels like a lot in that car, but not in another front engined car of the same weight and displacement - small sportscars, like the mgb are the same way - in stock trim at 95hp and 1900lbs they feel nimble and fast - the lap times don't bear it out though



the only reason i can see for their position is how it would affect the reader market - there aren't that many 968 readers, and a whole lot of 911 readers - the advertisers for 968 products are slim, and don't represent any real revenue



this is a valid position from a business standpoint - they can't afford to alienate their meat and potatoes - they aren't going to make any money by telling all of those 964 owners, and the vendors that handle parts and services, that pay their bills, that their car can be regularly beaten by something else



it's a very standard marketing thing - as a matter of courtesy, and the liklihood that eventually most 968 owners will "trade up" to a 911, they cover our cars occasionally - i'm not a bit surprised at their position - i'm not offended by it either - it is what it is, and i'll still go out and buy this issue



but, we can rest in the knowledge that we know the real story

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[sbdrivingdotcom]

I'm a bit surprised that there is another 968 comparison so close to the one in which my car was featured. I haven't read the article yet because I don't have the magazine but does the 968 have M030? If not it seems a bit redundant to have another article like this. The 964 is a newer example of the 911 series than the 89 anniversary my 968 went up against. The bottom line is that we all have different reasons for purchasing a car and frankly I like that my preferences and tastes are not the same as everyone else's. If they were, many more than 12,000 968s would have been manufactured and more than 4500 would have reached our shores. And quite frankly, I don't want a car everyone else has. I see hundreds if not thousands of times MORE 911s than I do 968s. I've seen THREE 968s in my 13+ years of living in Santa Barbara and LA.



But, since the 968 was never popular in more than very small circles of enthusiasts, here we are 12-15 years later continuing to lament how our beloved cars are maligned in favor of a 911. I'm 6'5" and can barely -- and that is by lifting my weight with both arms and sliding my legs underneat the steering column -- fit into a 911 or Boxster so the reasons for my affinity are simple and practical. The 968 is more civilized and practical than a 911 but that is not why Excellence readers nor the testers purchase a Porsche. Our Autobahn cruisers are at home in many environments which make them excellent all purpose vehicles. I think true Porschefiles can appreciate a 968 for what it does, and that is everything, well. But it will never have the precise and defined personality that a 911 has and quite frankly I'm ok with that too.

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[TheMirror]

Hi flash -



Just curious if you've read the article yet. Its about as unbiased as an article between two totally different cars can be. The reviewer simply picked the one he liked better. Not quite sure how the 911 leanings read into this one.



FWIW, its nearly impossible to find any USDM 964 with manual windows. Even the RS America had power winders.



Cheers,

-Mirror



[quote name='flash' post='32341' date='Mar 13 2007, 10:09 AM']we can beat this one to death, but it won't go anywhere - they don't like the 968 - they like the 911





a lot of 964 owners will tell you the 964 feels faster than the 968 - the 968 does not give you the sense of urgency a 964 will - but, it is not a sportscar either - it is a GT - it is fully loaded with full power everything, AC, yada yada - the 964 has no driveline, and all the power and weight at the rear, and is usually manual windows, etc (though all was available) - there is a feeling of more power than there really is - it's the nature of a rear engined car - 914s are the same way - 120hp feels like a lot in that car, but not in another front engined car of the same weight and displacement - small sportscars, like the mgb are the same way - in stock trim at 95hp and 1900lbs they feel nimble and fast - the lap times don't bear it out though



the only reason i can see for their position is how it would affect the reader market - there aren't that many 968 readers, and a whole lot of 911 readers - the advertisers for 968 products are slim, and don't represent any real revenue



this is a valid position from a business standpoint - they can't afford to alienate their meat and potatoes - they aren't going to make any money by telling all of those 964 owners, and the vendors that handle parts and services, that pay their bills, that their car can be regularly beaten by something else



it's a very standard marketing thing - as a matter of courtesy, and the liklihood that eventually most 968 owners will "trade up" to a 911, they cover our cars occasionally - i'm not a bit surprised at their position - i'm not offended by it either - it is what it is, and i'll still go out and buy this issue



but, we can rest in the knowledge that we know the real story[/quote]





Not an M030 car, I get the feeling that they did another 968 comparo because the prievious one wasn't the level playing field they had organized for.



[quote name='sbdrivingdotcom' post='32352' date='Mar 13 2007, 12:37 PM']I'm a bit surprised that there is another 968 comparison so close to the one in which my car was featured. I haven't read the article yet because I don't have the magazine but does the 968 have M030?[/quote]

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[flash]

sb - yes!



mirror - not yet - as i said, i will go and buy the issue though - i didn't mean to sound critical - it sounds like more of the same though



so far, i am going purely on the things said, and am really referring to the general tone of the 968 articles in that magazine - i'm not criticizing the magazine, but i also would not be surprised at anything they might say



i just don't get wound up about that kind of thing in anything i read anywhere - i look behind the writer's words to the editor's and publisher's intentions, to understand the perspective from which the piece was written - it helps balance out any tone and opinion - it's often what's between the lines that matters more to me than what is said specifically



i should be able to slip out this afternoon and pick it up

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[TheMirror]

Ah indeed, I didn't catch that you still needed to pick it up.



They're certainly a 911 magazine, no doubt, and that's where all the revenue comes from. No argument there either.



Take a look and see whatcha think.



Best,

-Mirror

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[flash]

will do - no worries

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[gryphon]

How's about someone scan it with Adobe for sharing privately? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />





Tom

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[flash]

aaaaaaack! bad boy!

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[968rz]

I haven't read the article but can speak from experience, last summer my neighbor (he has a 92 964n/a) and I (93 968n/a) swapped cars for a drive and while it was fun to drive his car I still like the 68 better.

His car was a bit faster (64stick vs. 68auto) off the line but he never got more than a cars length ahead + the 968 was smother, quieter... just plain nicer to drive. So IMO the 964 is a fun car to drive (for a while) but the 968 is a better car and really in a league of its own (as are the 911s in their own way).

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[RPM]

If you are a Porsche enthusiast and do not subscribe to Excellence then you are missing out on the best US Porsche magazine. You can quibble about a few biases they occasionally show, but the magazine is top notch in every way. Fabulous photography. I look foward to every issue.

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