[Fox944]

<!--quoteo(post=67382:date=Feb 19 2009, 11:17 AM:name=Ryan)-->QUOTE (Ryan @ Feb 19 2009, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->OK Fox...spill the beans. What parts have you added in order to get you to this point?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

if i told you, i'd have to ki.....

Honestly, i put a lot of time and money into this car (not just the drivetrain, but everything else). First thing any of you want to do is make sure its making the power it should be making in the first place. One of the keys is having a healthy engine. Once thats in place, there are literally tons of things to be done. First and foremost, you want to do all the Bolt-On modifications RS Barn offers (Header, full exhaust, air-box modification, etc). Those are the most cost effective modifications and give you the best bang for your buck, after that you are spending tons of money on very small gains.

When i bought this car, i decided i was going to make it the most powerfull n/a 968 (with the exception of all out race cars). Are there more powerfull 968's? perhaps, i wouldnt doubt it. My search for more power hasnt ended.

At the end of the day, i wouldnt be where i am without Pete's efforts. If you want details and wish to make your car as powerfull as mine (or more powerfull), i'd suggest you contact Pete @ RS Barn. He knows exactly what has been done to my car...including modifications he did not perform.

He learned some tricks with my car, and believes there is more power to be had with my set-up. Hopefully we can make that happen playing around with parts.

I may go to Hershey this year, if any of you would like to take my car for a spin (granted i show)....you are welcome to do so.

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[PorscheG96]

<!--quoteo(post=67383:date=Feb 19 2009, 08:41 AM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Feb 19 2009, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->lol - i know and i'm not telling - neener neener

i can't get past emissions though with the stuff, so i'm stuck - boohoo - for now<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The upgrades aren't exactly a secret. I have dyno charts from another 968 owner at least 5 years ago that makes more n/a power than this but requires stand-alone engine management [and thus won't pass smog]...

I know there are other ways to make more power that COULD pass smog [although it would perform even better w/ Motronic delete], but I don't have the time or budget to research at the moment.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img]

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[Fox944]

<!--quoteo(post=67398:date=Feb 19 2009, 04:27 PM:name=PorscheG96)-->QUOTE (PorscheG96 @ Feb 19 2009, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The upgrades aren't exactly a secret. I have dyno charts from another 968 owner at least 5 years ago that makes more n/a power than this but requires stand-alone engine management [and thus won't pass smog]...

I know there are other ways to make more power that COULD pass smog [although it would perform even better w/ Motronic delete], but I don't have the time or budget to research at the moment.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


How streetable is that car & how long will the engine last before it needs a rebuild is the big question. There are plenty of N/A motors that make more power, just about all of them are race motors however.

My car idles & runs smooth. I'm also still running a cat.

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[flash]

also, it's not just about peak numbers - people often use those to talk about an engine, but that's only a part of the story - how wide of a band and where that band is plays just a big of a roll as anything else - on a street car, the area under the curve is a lot more important than the peaks

but yes, certainly there are engines out there that put out more in the way of peak numbers, but as fox said, this is a street car - that's huge, and by far the biggest numbers we've seen yet - no surprise though - the stuff he is using works very well - that's why it has been developed - the other stuff out there either doesn't as well, or doesn't work at all

as for passing smog, that's pretty tricky stuff - as it is, if you are in the wrong zip code here (and which ones those are is changing every year) or get the wrong guy, you're nailed - there is one guy here that won't even do an inspection on a porsche of any kind - another one passed as soon as he saw the strut tower brace and clean engine bay - i am constantly threading the needle on that, and will be doing it again soon - it's not getting any easier, that's for sure

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[ds968]

btw, many moons ago, I removed the cat on my 944 and IT STILL PASSED the smog test. the guy did not do a visual under the car, now they look at every nook and cranny . not sure the 968 would pass without the cat, maybe 944s run a lot cleaner, or the standards were much lower a decade ago..

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[flash]

lol - i can tell you for sure that it won't pass without the cat - in fact, it BARELY passed with a big dual biscuit aftermarket one - even with that, i had to get it hot - the smaller ones would never have done it - that's why i'm going back to the factory cat

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[RS Barn]

Porsche G96
I've been around alot of testing of these motors and haven't seen anything better. Are you willing to share or just toss out some goo. Did they time their motor with dowels also? I know what happens from here to 375hp and dollars. What I've done is make power and torque using stock ignition (not a problem). I keep learning while raising the bar. There are secrets!!!
Pete

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[PorscheG96]

<!--quoteo(post=67418:date=Feb 19 2009, 06:46 PM:name=RS Barn)-->QUOTE (RS Barn @ Feb 19 2009, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Are you willing to share or just toss out some goo. Did they time their motor with dowels also? I know what happens from here to 375hp and dollars.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry I don't understand what you are saying. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]

Around here it sounds like 250 rwhp 968's require 'secret' parts and I disagree, however if you have done it with Motronic then you must have your unique methods. No I'm not talking about a race engine and it doesn't sound like there's a 50 state smog legal option at this power level either.

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[RS Barn]

<!--quoteo(post=67422:date=Feb 20 2009, 03:59 AM:name=PorscheG96)-->QUOTE (PorscheG96 @ Feb 20 2009, 03:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Sorry I don't understand what you are saying. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]

Around here it sounds like 250 rwhp 968's require 'secret' parts and I disagree, however if you have done it with Motronic then you must have your unique methods. No I'm not talking about a race engine and it doesn't sound like there's a 50 state smog legal option at this power level either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

There aren't any secret parts but a bunch of factors that can make that happen. Fox's car took two nights and the Bosch Hammer to figure out some stuff. My bill was $1050 from dyno shop and tuner. I got paid zip.
Please tell me what you saw 5 years ago for free that made that kind of power?
Pete

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[flash]

i think the underlying point is being missed here

peak numbers are really all hooey, and only for those who don't understand how to read charts - i'm sure i can build an engine that makes 300 rwhp NA - it won't run for crap below 6k, will have to rev to ridiculous levels to hit that, and won't last 60 minutes, but it will make the power - useless engine though

i'd like to see some charts or evidence from anybody who has done more than 250 rwhp NA - the only cars i have ever heard of that had any more all had ITBs on them, or were full on race cars with very small peak power curves at very high rpms - apples and oranges

this is a daily driver (albeit somewhat less civilized)

as for 50 states legal, not just yet........................

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[RS Barn]

I'm still building for the street/track market and not full race scene. All of my products work with base ignition and fuel control and have tons of torque.
I'd like to see what others have done/proven
Pete

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=67424:date=Feb 19 2009, 08:38 PM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Feb 19 2009, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->i'm sure i can build an engine that makes 300 rwhp NA - it won't run for crap below 6k, will have to rev to ridiculous levels to hit that, and won't last 60 minutes, but it will make the power - useless engine though<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

why build that, when you can just buy a Honda S2000 ?!

awright, getting a bit OT here, but I just had a jolt of java and needed to get a smarta** comment out before I leave for work.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

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[UKCS]

I am a supporter of Pete and RS Barn products. I owe alot to Pete who supplied me as a UK customer about a year ago. RS Barn head, performance cams and throttle body. Added an RS Barn flywheel and clutch also. Went on to have my injectors cleaned and upped the fuel pressure regulator. I also have an aftermarket exhaust with 100 cell cat, standard headers and the airbox mod. All rounded of with 4-5 hours live mapping on a rolling road by just about the UK's best mapper.

Just under 270bhp here (just over 230bhp at the wheels) for those who like the meaningless topend headline figures.

Will post a power graph over the next couple of days, pretty much linear upto the variocam changeover. Very strong pulling car, smooth delivery.

Big thumbs up to Pete.

UKCS

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[S_Cal968]

Since the mods to a streetable, smog regulated engine are limited, I'd guess RSB has found a cam grind that works with the DME and perhaps they've done some head porting and/or port matching. There's only so much you can do with a modified fuel map, [ie chip]. Obviously any mods external to the engine, (header, intake etc) would be noticed during an inspection, so you're limited to the head, cams & electronic control. However, one could modify the stock intake internally by increasing the runner volume, [extrude-hone] to make it breathe better. Of course then the head and cams would have to be optimized for max flow.
It's commonly known by engine builders that mods to the head(s) and cam(s) alone can provide a sizeable increase in power. If you can get everything to work together and still pass smog testing you're golden...

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[mattipuh]

<!--quoteo(post=67464:date=Feb 21 2009, 01:35 AM:name=UKCS)-->QUOTE (UKCS @ Feb 21 2009, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I am a supporter of Pete and RS Barn products. I owe alot to Pete who supplied me as a UK customer about a year ago. RS Barn head, performance cams and throttle body. Added an RS Barn flywheel and clutch also. Went on to have my injectors cleaned and upped the fuel pressure regulator. I also have an aftermarket exhaust with 100 cell cat, standard headers and the airbox mod. All rounded of with 4-5 hours live mapping on a rolling road by just about the UK's best mapper.

Just under 270bhp here (just over 230bhp at the wheels) for those who like the meaningless topend headline figures.

Will post a power graph over the next couple of days, pretty much linear upto the variocam changeover. Very strong pulling car, smooth delivery.

Big thumbs up to Pete.

UKCS<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

UKCS - How did your tune up go? share the dyno sheets to feel the power... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

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[netopyer]

i will refresh this old topic with my dyno run... i am a little bit confused:

facts: mileage 225000 km

lower curves are with original <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> sensor, higher are measured when we replaced the <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> with the VW VR6 one (they are almost identical)



the dyno run was made with airbox mod and KN installed, i wonder where are my 20 hp

graph is in crank HP/Nm, not wheels

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[flash]

not sure what you are trying to figure out. don't try to compare one curve to the next, unless you did them back to back.



so, put the OEM airbox and chip back in, do some runs.



then, put the modded airbox with the K&N and the chip back in and do some runs.



those you can compare. anything else you cannot.



as for the MAF being "almost identical", it's as much about the electronics as it is the size and shape. if the values are different, so will be the tuning the ECU does, which will change the output.



also, do not try to "calculate" from crank to wheels. everybody does it wrong. you have to actually measure it. you cannot calculate it. it is not a straight percentage. it is closer to a fixed number, but even that isn't really accurate. just measure at the wheels.

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[netopyer]

2 curve sets are just to compare how the replaced <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> sensor changed the them.. car remained bolt on dyno and we changed sensors between 2 dyno runs ....



i just wanted to know if bad <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> can cause 20+ps loss , and we found out that even with new <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> , the power is not even stock (forget about mods now)



this dyno measures power on the wheels and also power losses . final crank HP is calculated wheelHP+losses=crank HP

there should be 240+ and it is not, and that is the problem i need to solve <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

a bad MAF can ruin everything.



i don't know why you think it's not comparing to stock. the curves look very right. do NOT try to calculate numbers to get some figure listed as stock.



every dyno is different. (i.e. - a mustang will be 10% different than a dynojet) you cannot compare one to the next. i've said this countless times, yet people try to compare things.



the only thing you can do is do unmodified runs and compare to modified runs, on the same dyno, on the same day, on the same car.



also, do NOT try to calculate from wheels to crank. that NEVER works. use only wheel numbers. stock is generally 197-203 at the wheels.



further, you can assume a 1% power loss for every 10k miles. a 100k mile motor will be down 10%.



you may not have a problem.

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[netopyer]

curves may be nice but end power is 220 hp (written on the bottom) which is 20 hp less than stock - which can be of course influenced by mileage....



we did the dyno run 2 times because we wanted to know the difference between old and new <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> sensor, then we plotted them on the one output to see the effect, so those 2 sets of curves are from same dyno, same car , same day. the runs were made 5 minutes one after another

i am not trying to calculate crank power that crank PS and torque result plotted and written on the bottom of the graph are normal output from that dyno, nothing calcutaled by us

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