[mech]

check it out

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/show...ad.php?t=200062

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

yeah - nice bar, but i think they really need to get down to the $200 range if they want to sell a bunch of them - the problem is that the KLA bar, while admitedly not as pretty, is every bit as functional in this car, given the load limits of the chassis, and at half the price



i've also got a guy here who says he can actually make a carbon fiber one that is lighter and stronger (not that any stronger will do any good) for $300 a pop - been giving that one a lot of thought lately - a nice wide and flat bar painted body color sounds pretty good to me

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Bart]

I would be interested in a CF bar in that price range. Wouldn't care to much if it were painted or not.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

looks like it could be my next project - wrapping up roll bar project this week (the guy had to finsih something else before he could get back to me) then i should be able to get on it

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Bart]

Cool!!

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[mech]

sounds interesting flash

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Anchorman]

Ah - now I know why I won't have my roll bar in time.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Aus968]

Flash,

Again I think you are way out of line, Newsflash mate, we have in fact already sold a "bunch" of 968 strut braces for our normal forum members discounted price of $325, to date we have sold 28 and two more I plan to ship out over the week end and I have three more on back order, Not every 968 owner post on these forums,

I notice that whenever our name is mentioned you jump straight on and post, you mostly always start with a nice comment and then proceed to post negative comments and tell everyone how much better you could do it or have it done, and it not only our product that you do this to, I also find it extremely unethical that you are an editor for a magazine that posts on every forum saying which products are your favorites and so do many others.

I'm sure that if your statements were positive towards us, then other vendors would stand up say the same as I am, as I have said before to you have never seen our brace, so how do you know the weight of it or if its better or worse that any other brace, I'm sure that I will get frowned upon or maybe even loose some orders for comment's that I make in this post but I am sick and tired of reading your miss guided, one sided, egotistical opinions,

Sorry to the other guys on the forum, I just don’t understand why Flash continues to comment over and over on our products every time our name is mentioned. For some reason i dont think flash wants us to do very well,

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[SANDOVAL]

[quote name='Aus968' date='Apr 29 2005, 06:04 PM']Flash,

        Again I think you are way out of line, Newsflash mate, we have in fact already sold a "bunch" of 968 strut braces for our normal forum members discounted price of $325, to date we have sold 28 and two more I plan to ship out over the week end and I have three more on back order, Not every 968 owner post on these forums,

            I notice that whenever our name is mentioned you jump straight on and post, you mostly always start with a nice comment and then proceed to post negative comments and tell everyone how much better you could do it or have it done, and it not only our product that you do this to, I also find it extremely unethical that you are an editor for a magazine that posts on every forum saying which products are your favorites and so do many others.

              I'm sure that if your statements were positive towards us, then other vendors would stand up say the same as I am, as I have said before to you have never seen our brace, so how do you know the weight of it or if its better or worse that any other brace, I'm sure that I will get frowned upon or maybe even loose some orders for comment's that I make in this post but I am sick and tired of reading your miss guided, one sided, egotistical opinions,

              Sorry to the other guys on the forum, I just don’t understand why Flash continues to comment over and over on our products every time our name is mentioned. For some reason i dont think flash wants us to do very well,

[right][post="3972"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



AUS968 I have never seen one of your strut tower braces in person. But I have seen all of the photos. With that said I think your design is fantastic. It all comes down to the consumers budget. Just like any product there is a low cost and high cost solution. If I remember correctly the Porsche Motorsports strut brace was close to $1K. Since those are no longer available your product is the only high end SB on the market. Cliche but "You get what you pay for" don't let Bob's comments get you too worked up, the quality and apearence of the strut brace speaks for itself. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this forum. My opinion is your product is an excellent value.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Anchorman]

AUS968 - I'm surprised at your reaction to Flash's comments. The first thing he says is "nice bar", after which he provides personal opinions related to cost vs. appearance. I saw no criticism of your product. There was at least one much more critical view expressed on Rennlist to which you apparently decided not to respond - puzzling. If you're seeing commercial success, that's the important bottom line. As Eric said, everyone is entitled to their opinion - and, of course, to their choice in product purchases.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[KensCab]

AUS968, I have to agree with Anchorman on this. All Flash did was express an opinion, After stateing "nice bar". I was not even aware of it untill this post which led me to your site to check things out, I was thinking 'some really nice stuff'. And the price does seem a little higher if you are after 'function' only, but many also weight in the 'look' or quality of the product. The quality and look is IMO excellant. I was 'weighting' that difference myself... vs cost.

And as far as an "editor" expressing an 'opinion', that IS what they do. We are all adults and can evaluate an opinion for ourselves, but that is the beauty of the foundation of the right to expess an opinion, I see nothing "unethical" at all.

Just one of a 'forums' opinion and my $0.02 worth.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Aus968]

There is a lot more to this than just this one post that some of you may not be aware of, i don't mind criticism or peoples opinions at all, thats why i dont jump on rennlist to defend our product when people make comments that i dont agree with, but when you hear it come from the same guy over and over again i tend get a little pissed,

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RS Barn]

Flash,

When you get your carbon fiber one done I think you'd have to get it around $200 to sell a bunch of them.

As a manufacturer,vendor and forum sponsor I was not happy with that post either.

It's up to the MANUFACTURER TO DECIDE WHAT TO SELL HIS PRODUCT FOR! You certainly have the right to say you feel the KLA is a better value. Or you don't think it is worth the price. Beyond that , it appeared you were shooting down that product value.

Pete

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

i was only stating an opinion on what i think the market will bear, and how they would repsond to pricing - this is no different that somebody saying 30k is too high for a car - while the car may be worth it to one person, the majority will not think so - priced lower, the market increases - the comment was strictly limited to market value and nothing more - i was not criticising the bar in its funciton or appearance - i even said it was a prettier bar - as for a manufacturer selecting price - sure, go ahead and set it high - that doesn't mean the market will rush to your door



as for preference or taking shots at dynatech, that just isn't true - how could i have a preference when i haven't even seen one in person, let alone tried it out? i have made all comments specifically related to the price and function - i've never told anybody not to buy the dynatech - i've only said that additional strength beyond the KLA is irrelevent, as the chassis can't transfer load beyond the strength of the KLA anyway - i've also only said that the price of the dynatech is higher than i think it should be - i think they would sell a lot more units if the price was more competitive - i know of a dozen people myself that would have made a different decision if the bar was priced lower, and i'm sure there are a lot more people out there that feel the same way - i don't understand the logic of voluntarily losing nearly 50% of potential sales to date - i'd rather sell more of something at a lower mark-up and please more people, than make more money on a fewer units - that's my opinion - that's also why i am insisting that the roll bar price be set as low as it is



all that being said, the dynatech is a nice bar and definitely more attractive than the KLA - if form is important, and not just mere function, then this is a good choice

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RS Barn]

How can you say the unit was overpriced? Do you have some inside info? Engineering costs , overhead, cost of manufacturing.

Your opinion was the bar should be priced at $200 or below to sell due to another product being priced less with equal function. I'd love to use your concepts on my next wheel purchase. Maybe I can convince BBS to sell me some fordged modular magnesium wheels at the same price as some aftermarket cast aluminum jobs. They serve the same function.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

since mechanical design is what i went to school for, and spent a number of years in professionally, yes, i guess i do have some "inside info" on engineering costs and such - i know what it would cost to make that bar here, and have contemplated doing that very thing since the vanity cover clearance issue sprung up



that's the whole reason behind the time i've spent on the carbon fiber design - it has nothing to do with the carbon fiber look (which i can't stand) - i know i can get them made for that, (probably even less) and the company making them would still turn a profit - machined aluminum can be much cheaper if you have access to automation (almost everybody does nowadays) - automation is how we are going to be able to offer the roll bar so cheaply - the main hoop and the plates will all be computer automated -



the strut tower brace will also be automated



on the assumption that testing proves effective, the high flow cat stainless exhaust system whenever i get to it (which will likely sell for about $700 complete) will also be partially automated



the wheel analogy is completely applicable - good choice - when choosing a wheel, a customer has things to consider like performance, appearance, and structural integrity - the BBS is a strong and light wheel for sure, but will you see the gains in a street car? not likely unless you go larger - then it comes down to appearance - same thing with the dynatech - additional strength is a non-issue, and it is really about appearance



for the strut tower brace, this may be enough for some people - that's great - my own choice was based entirely on function, based on the fact that the two were not priced comparably - there was no performance gain to be had, and the appearance didn't bother me - for me, as well as many others, it was a simple choice - i'm glad that they offer the bar, and i'm sure a lot of people will enjoy it - even more would though if it was priced more competitively - there is no denying that the high price has chased many customers to the KLA



the handling benefits of a strut tower brace are significant - i'd like to see everybody running one - i really don't care who makes it - that's why i am looking into making one that will suit both form and function, and will insist that it be priced with a minimal profit margin - i'm not telling the company they shouldn't make money, but i'm insisting that they don't over charge for something - we are looking at staying well below keystone - i doubt we can get it below the KLA price though, and so, it will again come down to appearance versus cost for many people



i applaud the efforts of everybody out there trying to come up with products for these cars - i have no problem with somebody trying to make a buck, but there is no real profit to be had because the market volume is so low, so this really turns out to be a labor of love - if you make a few bucks along the way, great, but why not try to please as many people as possible since nobody is going to get rich off this stuff?



i guess it's really just a philosophical difference - i've made the choice to be a bit more philanthropic about my projects, rather than capitalistic - that's my choice - it works for me - i'm not suggesting that it works for everybody



i've only pointed out the obvious, which has been stated by countless others - more people would buy the dynatech brace if it was priced lower - but that's their choice



by the way - the main reason the 968 didn't sell well in the first place was its price

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[KensCab]

flash, ..when 'designing' a 'tower strut brace' has anyone given any thought to tri-angulating it back to the cowl/firewall? My K-code Mustang had a brace that went from spring tower top to top and also angled back to a centerpoint on the cowl/firewall area. I know two different cars but I beliveve the concept is the same. The brace on the mustang made a WORLD of difference in the way that car handled, just wondered if it would be worth the effort on the 968?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RS Barn]

Yes, you are the great and powerful OZ and sounds like soon to be in the business!

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

ken - that would be the age old "monte carlo" bar design - very proven - been around for about 30 years now (am i showing my age yet?) - would work very well - hadn't actually thought about that, but now that you mention it..............



rs - not at all - you've got me all wrong - i wouldn't be getting into this at all if people would come up with stuff and sell it at a reasonable markup - i'm just sick of the profiteering that goes on with parts for this car - it happens across the board - i'm going to do it because these people are all my friends - i don't need to make any money at this - it's a hobby - fortunately, i'm in the unique position of having vendors at my disposal who are willing and able to do the R&D on their dime, in anticipation of advance sales



i'll be farming all work out to those vendors, and let the 968 public reap the rewards - i won't be going into business myself, and thus making the parts cheaper to the consumer by really only having them pay for materials and fab time, and directly to the vendors, with no middle man

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Greimann]

To those vendors, including myself, remember that this is a free public forum, and product criticisms and praise are free to flow, as are your tasteful product promotions and rebuttal to feedback.



We, as moderators, regulate not what you say, but how you say it, and so far the exchange has been civil, respectful and ..... no charge.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.