[968forums]

In an ongoing effort to clean up old registrations, delete spammers, and update the membership statistics, many registrations have been deleted (over 3000). These are all people who have never posted to the forum, and have not been on the site for over a year.

If you were deleted, you are more than welcome to re-register, and we encourage you to do so.

Those who have never posted, even if they have been on the site recently, have also had their status and access privileges changed as well.

If you are one of these, whether you re-register, or merely revisit the site, you will see some changes. One of them will require that you post in the "Introductions" section. It will require you to list your City and State, as well as the year and model of your 968 (assuming you have one, otherwise state "NONE"). The post will go through Moderator Preview prior to showing up. This is for no other reason than to give people an opportunity to say "hello" and attempt to further build the community. No other information will be shared unless you authorize it. No other information is required, though you are welcome to post anything about yourself that you like. Please limit the content to that of an introduction, and do not use this area as a general dump site for questions.

Once the Moderator allows the post, you will have unfettered access to the areas allowed at the "Newbie" level.

There will be very few areas that you will be able to see at the "Lurker" level, so we encourage you to pop in and say "hello" and get started. You may well find new friends there, and at a bare minimum let others know that there are others out there.

We realize that this is an inconvenience and will upset a few people. We will also be periodically cleaning house of registrations that did not complete the final step. We appreciate your understanding on this and hope that it has not caused too much inconvenience. We strive to provide and maintain the absolute best 968 site in the world, and feel that this is necessary to insuring that.

As always, all are welcome, and this site remains free.

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[RPM]

It is an unfortunate decision to essentially make lurkers second-class citizens. Some folks are just here to learn, not interested in posting or even being known. Clearing out old and inactive accounts makes sense - as does aggressively fighting spam. But as long as a member is not causing problems, what is the harm in anonymity?

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[flash]

well, this is a club as much as it is a resource library - membership means belonging - all they really have to do is say "hello" - it doesn't require anymore interaction than that - it's nothing more than greeting the host when you arrive to a party

and there have been plenty of "problems" with anonymous users - we just don't air our dirty laundry in public here

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[Fox944]

<!--quoteo(post=71477:date=May 6 2009, 09:59 AM:name=RPM)-->QUOTE (RPM @ May 6 2009, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It is an unfortunate decision to essentially make lurkers second-class citizens. Some folks are just here to learn, not interested in posting or even being known. Clearing out old and inactive accounts makes sense - as does aggressively fighting spam. But as long as a member is not causing problems, what is the harm in anonymity?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


if you someone has not been on the sight in over a year, i wouldnt even call them a lurker. If they want to lurk after more then a year, they can simply re-register. I dont see any harm in it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif[/img]

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[flash]

i think he was referring to the new requirement that a lurker must post to gain access to anything, essentially eliminating lurkers - i see this as a very good thing, and an opportunity to make new friends - anonymity does not serve this site and can only lead to apathy - we all know where that leads

by the way, while there have been a couple of glitches (but no complaints per se) we have gotten an overwhelmingly positive response via email (about 30 so far) from members who got the email sent out telling them about this change - this has resulted in new registrations from those who had been absent (about 20) - these are new old friends

how can that be bad?

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[RPM]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->... anonymity does not serve this site ...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The site should serve the members, not vice versa. If someone just wants to troll anonymously for information I have no problem with that. There may be a person or two abusing this privilege, but who really cares?

Having said that however, you do all the work, so you get to make the rules.

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[flash]

i think we do have a philosophical difference here in the goals of the site - it is a meeting place as much as a library, so an essential component is the interaction - that is what makes it work - it really does not matter how many people there are, and only that the community is a happy one

also, the only way that interest in this car will survive is by nurturing and encouraging that interaction - anything we can do to get people involved and talking is a step toward insuring interest in the car in the future

basically lurkers do nothing for the site, so we are not particularly inclined to do much for them - why should we?

again though, all that is required is that they say "hello" - if that doesn't work for them, i don't think it harms the site one bit to not have them here - i wouldn't want people coming to a party i threw either, if they merely sat on the wall and didn't talk to anybody

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[rxter]

<!--quoteo(post=71494:date=May 6 2009, 10:58 AM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ May 6 2009, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->i wouldn't want people coming to a party i threw either, if they merely sat on the wall and didn't talk to anybody<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I would if she was good looking. OK enough with the humor.

I feel bad about dumping the shy folks as well. They may be fueling interest in the car in a non public, but very real way. They may purchase a car based on the information here (it made a big difference in my decision). They may mod it, or at least keep fresh oil in her, extending the lifespan of the car. Of course I would prefer lots of interaction here on the site, but I am a fairly talkative and opinionated person (I only wish I could contribute more to the technical discussions). Staying in the back ground is not necessarily a bad thing - not everyone is that outgoing.

Can you share anything that would help us understand what problems you have had with lurkers?

Are the admins OK with someone who registers, says hello, and then stays silent? I can see the need for a periodic clean up that most will never notice, but as an ongoing policy item I am trying to understand where you gents are drawing the boundaries.

Thanks

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[flash]

really don't want to publicly get into the problems that have occurred - there is enough of that drama already - when i see you in a week i'd be happy to discuss it though

of course we are ok with someone who stays silent after popping in to say hello - that was exactly my point - the idea is to encourage but not force people to become active - the hope is that a simple outreach may turn into new friendships and more people being involved - there was nothing more machiavellian than that

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[94SilverCab]

<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->I would like to step into this conversation for a moment. I understand both points of view and I share the assertion that non-participants should be able to read certain parts of the forums and use some of the resources here, especially the resources that would help them to make a buying decision. The trouble philosophically is where to draw the line. Excuse my stream of thought here; I have more questions than answers…<!--sizec-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->The concept of a web forums is still in its infancy, and, perhaps in our own way we are straddling a line between a classic forum and networking web. With the exception of our friends overseas, many of us have been lucky enough to use this site to form or foster personal relationships. I feel close to many of the people that I have not met in person, but that is the hopeful outcome of this interaction.<!--sizec-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->As I see it, this forum serves two primary purposes. The first mission is to create a library of knowledge and experience regarding the care and maintenance of 968s. The second purpose is to promote personal relationships among the forums users. The trouble in maintaining this clear vision is the interference that comes from the periphery. How should the administrators/moderators deal with subjective knowledge on the information side, and how to deal with people who fall into the social network, but decline to participate. With the understanding that you should never believe what you read, especially on the internet our knowledge base continues to grow. Here is where the rubber meets the road:<!--sizec-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->“My caster blocks wore out and needed to be replaced” (Good)<!--sizec-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->“My caster blocks wore out and I decided to replace then with the 951 version” (subjective, subject to interpretation, may or may not be helpful to others)<!--sizec-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->“My caster blocks wore out and I decided to replace them with silicon caulk” (subjective, dangerous, will cause harm to anyone who follows this direction)<!--sizec-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->At what point does it become a fiduciary responsibility of the owners/administrators to censor, edit or delete harmful and dangerous content? We have the advantage in our corner of the web to control the flow of bad information more efficiently than a site dedicated to a larger production vehicle (try the Honda or Miata forums sometime). We typically err on the side of making certain that information is either correct, or expressed as an opinion. We also run a certain risk of short stopping a discussion at the risk of offending a member.<!--sizec-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->The second topic is how much participation we should expect from our members. Is it helpful to have a “member” who does not participate, has no relationship to the other members, and is disconnected from the social aspects of the forum? I have to ask myself what that individual gets out of this arrangement. This is not to say that every member needs to contribute on every topic, but “you get what you give” in this environment, and standing on the sidelines must be a very unsatisfying experience. I think our expectation is that the relationship should be reciprocal, even if it is not 50/50.<!--sizec-->
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<!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo--><!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto-->It is also no secret that this clan of ours has a history of discord. The people that participate here have, we feel, made a commitment to civility on this site. To that end, we prefer to fill this site with friends, rather than trying to attract the largest number of people. Based on our history, we have pretty much succeeded in collecting the best and most knowledgeable members with this shared interest. In order to achieve that goal there needs to be some sort of vetting process. The absolute best way would be by recommendation, the next best way is by introduction, and finally, what we are left with is self-introduction. I truly do not see any harm in asking someone who knocks on our door who they are and what they want from us. <!--fontc-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->I know the conversation will continue and I encourage your feedback. Nevertheless, please know that we take this balancing act very seriously.<!--sizec-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->Regards,<!--sizec-->
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<!--fonto:Times New Roman--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:3--><!--/sizeo-->Jay <!--sizec-->
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[biotechee]

I see both sides of this, but overall, I am quite OK with the requirement to introduce.

The only downside - if you want to call it that - is it will give some non-members fodder for spouting off and continuing their dislike of this site and some of its members.... So be it.

I do like the idea of trying to create a community where involvement is encouraged and fostered. As others have said, these cars that we love so much are few and far between and trying to foster such a community helps us all learn more about the car and keep them running. Just wish I could contribute more technical stuff!

As for some of the behind-the-scenes stuff, I can't speak for Bob, Jay and Pete and their specific experiences, but I can tell you all that a certain post I made here netted a rather interesting PM on Rennlist. The Rennlist member who PM'd me is not a member of this forum. I was quite shocked and amused that something I wrote here was thrown in my face in a PM on another forum by someone who is not a member here....

So, good luck to the owners of 968Forums and thank you for continuing to improve this great resource. Without it, I fear my ownership of a 968 would just simply be ownership of another "car."

And, Jay, excellent post!

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[S_Cal968]

Now I understand why we have so many new intro's. This is one of the better Porsche sites, but no one should be forced to post...

I have to agree with RPM on this one. If a member logs in at least a couple of times a month, that in itself shows they have an interest. I login a few times a week, however I may not post anything for several weeks. Does that make me a sub-standard member[?]. On many new topics a response has already been posted. I won't mention any names flash... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] I guess I could always post a response like "yeah what he said.."
I suppose those that have 0 posts are targeted. If they have 1 post, presumably an introduction, that should validate their membership. It's probably safe to assume that many members are not technically minded or work on their cars, so they're just here to learn, nothing else. I don't see downside to that. FWIW IMO those that often login and don't post shouldn't be restricted or penalized.
I don't know if I'd use a party as an analogy, the internet is quite different. The net is an impersonal/voluntary form of media and those that read/lurk are very common.

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[flash]

ONLY ONE POST IS REQUIRED - a simple "HELLO - I'm so and so" after they come knocking on our door - THAT'S IT - then they can go back to their virtual obscurity if they wish

the members that were cleaned out were ones who had not even been on the board at all - no log in - nothing - for over a year

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[Joel968]

Flash,
How many "active" members are there currently? I would be interested in knowing. I think that it would also be nice to know the geogragphic regions of those active members...... noted that you are working on this.

Being in Savannah, I am now the only 968 here, the other 2 have moved on and I think that the closest in now in Charleston, SC.


Cheers, Joel

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