[flash]

well, i had to run around to a few vendors for parts i am working on - buzzed out to riverside for my first meeting, and then down to lake elsinore which gave me the chance to run ortega highway, and then blasted on home



i passed 4 cars along the way on ortega (remember that this is a windy 2 lane road) - about halfway through the 36 mile run i blew by a geezer in a 911 targa who looked like his heart had just stopped - never saw him again - just plain cracked me up - i wanted to take a shot, but couldn't get the phone aimed right before he was already out of sight - the expressions on people's faces as i passed them waving was priceless



oh - forgot to mention - i did it in the denali!!!



what a pleaure that car is to drive - it never ceases to amaze me at how well it drives - gotta love sway bars the size of your arm, big springs, huge cross drill AND slotted brakes, monstrous 305/40/22 tires, and over 400 horsepower

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[flash]

p.s. - yes, it would have been more fun in the 968, but i had such a good time just being out for a drive that i felt i had to share

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[Ryan]

Gotta love the gas mileage as well...wink wink nod nod

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[flash]

ya know, i was watching top gear the other day - they had a run on a track with a prius and a new M3 - 10 laps - M3 just sitting on the rear bumper of the prius - prius going as fast as it could



prius 17mpg

M3 19mpg



don't assume that because a car advertises 40mpg that you get that in real life - often it goes to percentage of flow

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='flash' post='64350' date='Dec 17 2008, 11:13 AM']ya know, i was watching top gear the other day - they had a run on a track with a prius and a new M3 - 10 laps - M3 just sitting on the rear bumper of the prius - prius going as fast as it could



prius 17mpg

M3 19mpg



don't assume that because a car advertises 40mpg that you get that in real life - often it goes to percentage of flow[/quote]

Wow! I knew that under non-optimal conditions (e.g. in the absence of regenerative braking), hybrids' gas mileage can really suffer, but 17 mpg?! I can see how the drafting helped the M3's mileage. All depends on how you drive 'em.

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[flash]

lol - he wasn't that close to gain drafting advantage - it just shows that if you drive those econoboxes hard, you are actually doing more harm than good



the same can be said of the car itself - it actually uses more resources to produce than it saves (by a long shot) - the batteries alone are ridiculous



it was a very enlightening episode

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[ds968]

[quote name='flash' post='64333' date='Dec 16 2008, 08:28 PM']oh - forgot to mention - i did it in the denali!!![/quote]



when you passed the 911 you were not "in the denali". what you meant to say is that you're in DENIAL ! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



sorry, couldn't resist , though that elephant does move !! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

lol - funny - we call her "celeste"

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='flash' post='64358' date='Dec 17 2008, 03:15 PM']the same can be said of the car itself - it actually uses more resources to produce than it saves (by a long shot) - the batteries alone are ridiculous[/quote]

Very true - I really don't get hybrids, from an economic or environmental standpoint. Even under the best of circumstances, just as you're getting close to breaking even, it's about time for a very expensve new set of batteries (and time to dump the old ones in a land fill). Not a smart move from any angle on a 7ish year-old car, which is probably worth less by this time than the battery pack costs. People just don't tend to think this stuff through, though. They seem to be "statement cars" as much as anything else.



Not trying to get political (this thread has already veered far enough off its original course), but just once, I'd love to see a Prius plastered with Bush/Cheney, McCain/Palin, Clinton-bashing, etc. stickers. Now that would make me do a double-take...

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[flash]

a lot of that goes to how it is made - right now, the batteries are not made here - they actually go all over the world before they get here



once they start making them here, and in large quantities, they will make sense, but likely in totally electric cars

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[rxter]

roflmao. I can only imagine that the 'geezer' had shat himself when hit by the down draft of that monster. I've been for a ride in that beast and the torque will take your breath away.



And the prius story is too funny. Man would I hate to have an M3 breathing up my a#$ for 10 laps. I guess that I am doing everything I can for big oil when one of those things gets in front of me on the freeway. Either hit the gas or move over, dude.

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[flash]

yup - it makes me crazy when i see one of those in the commuter lane doing 55 when the traffic on the rest of the road is doing 80 - i know they are allowed there, and that's great - they should keep up though, or get out of the way



rule to live by: just because you "can" does not mean you "should"

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='flash' post='64368' date='Dec 17 2008, 08:10 PM']a lot of that goes to how it is made - right now, the batteries are not made here - they actually go all over the world before they get here



once they start making them here, and in large quantities, they will make sense, but likely in totally electric cars[/quote]

That's true - the vast majority of the nickel hydride batteries used in hybrids come from either Japan (Panasonic and Sanyo) and China, although there is a U.S. based company that's gearing up. But NiH batteries will never fly in a full electric car, because the energy content, and therefore the range, is not even close to being up to the task.



Full electrics, and serial (or plug-in) hybrids will use lithium ion batteries, which have 2.5 times the energy content of NiH, and charge in a reasonable amount of time, but, to my knowledge, ALL lithium ion battery production is overseas. Plus, these batteries have other issues (mainly safety and cost related) that must be overcome before they are ready for prime time. They will work for a particular niche group of people, and I hope they are wildly successful once the technical and economic problems are overcome, but I'm afraid some of the current projections bandied about in the popular press of the readiness of these vehicles for large scale application are wildly optimistic. I'm guessing it will be a good ten years before we see reasonably priced full electrics that are useful for more than very narrow applications. That's why I like the idea of technologies like modern diesels as a means to buy the struggling automakers (and it's not just the domestics who are hurting) some time until full electrics are really ready for general consumption.

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[flash]

most everything i have seen coming out lately is lithium, and no longer nickel hydride - as far as i know the prius still uses that, but is changing over - it was interesting to see where that battery came from - it was some crazy trail like the compounds were mined in canada, then sent to india or something, then sent to china, then sent to japan - that's just plain nutty - if this is ever going to work it all needs to be done here



the lithium issues have been resolved - i was actually in on that back in the 80s when i worked on the battery for the MX - there were problems back then, but that is long gone - the only problems now are political



as for who will use these kinds of electric cars, they will fit the needs of 95% of the commuters - that is based on those people driving less than 80 miles round trip or less to work and back - that does indeed fit 95% (the average is more like 30) - it's far from a "niche" - unfortunately many people still remember the first generation electric cars and all of their problems - it seriously taints the marketability



as for the when part, 2010 will see entire fleets of these - i've been watching it closely - there are already a large number of models available, but the really cool ones come out in 2010 - these aren't "prototypes" or "projected models" - these are scheduled for production - mitsubishi, chrysler (if they are still around), toyota, and gm all have these slated to start - i really liked the mitsubishi when i saw it - we may actually have one of those ourself before they become available to the public - i'm seeing what i can do about that



plug in hybrids are the best bet "patch" - any form of diesel is just a bad idea for way too many reasons to list - sure, on the surface it seems good, but it's still short term thinking, and not the path to success - we really need to let the oil industry die and start over - screw the economic repercussions - continuing to try to patch it together with new generations of old technology dooms us all to more years of the same nightmare - fortunately the current economic disaster may well force that - it is certainly an open door for something new



but, anyway - back to the main topic, and enough of the side track - we can talk about that elsewhere



back to the ortega run, and how much fun it was, regardless of the car i was in - i just love that road, now that it has been repaved - i can't wait to get back out there with something more fun



i plan to put together another run when early spring weather comes around - i'm trying to find a route that is shorter - i'd also like to maybe go south, rather than north this time, and wrap in more people from san diego



thoughts on the run?

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[Fox944]

[quote name='flash' post='64350' date='Dec 17 2008, 12:13 PM']ya know, i was watching top gear the other day - they had a run on a track with a prius and a new M3 - 10 laps - M3 just sitting on the rear bumper of the prius - prius going as fast as it could



prius 17mpg

M3 19mpg



don't assume that because a car advertises 40mpg that you get that in real life - often it goes to percentage of flow[/quote]





I watched that show as well. And it is misleading to many people i think. No one in their right mind would drive a prius at its limits.



With that said, drive the prius normally and it will be far more efficient then an M3 being driven normally. That M3 in pursuit of the Prius was hardly pushing 5-6/10th's. So of course it wont break a sweat.



Using the same logic, you could drive an E46 M3 @ 10/10ths with a GT2 in pursuit. I'll bet the GT2 gets better fuel economy as it will only be going 6-7/10th to maintain pace.



I hope i'm not coming off as being argumentative. Just trying to get my point across. This test didnt prove anything except for the obvious. I'm not a fan of hybrid vehicles in the least. But you would get the same outcome in any gas powered Economy Car with an M3 in pace.





Back on topic, Your drive sounds like a lot of fun. I could really use a nice backroad drive....perhaps this sunday if my car is ready by then (keeping finegrs crossed).

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[flash]

i think the example was valid though, if you consider the driver and the way a car is driven - 20 some odd years ago i did a short stint as a sales rep - they gave me a chevette of all things to drive - that car got nearly 40mpg if you kept your foot out of it - it got about 16 the way i drove it (just before i blew the trans)



that was the example they were giving - any of us would likely drive such a car much harder than was intended or measured for economy, thus the results would not be what are advertised - they made that comment in conclusion on the show



as an example, while the denali gets 17 highway and 10 around town (the way i have it tuned), and the M3 gets about 22 highway and 15 around town, on the ortega run, i got 13 in the denali and 17 in the M3 at relatively the same speeds - the 968 got about 16 at nutty speeds, and roughly 19 at the same speeds as i did in the denali



not so much of a difference in real world comparison - that is why it often is not logical to spend a fortune on a new econobox, to save a small amount in fuel cost - of course this does not take into account environmental issues, which, like this conversation is better left to a different thread

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[rxter]

I know I know - I was supposed to put together a run for the Octoberish time frame. Had a few good ideas too. Then the economy tanked, my company laid people off (not me, but it was a nervous time), I put the house on the market, blah blah. No excuses huh? Now I need brakes and I'm too cheap to get them done. I'll shoot for one in the spring. Winter won't likely happen unless I find a set of Zimmerman's under the tree.

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[RPM]

Back to that topic..



Being a native of North California (the 51st state!), currently living in exile (NC), I had never heard of the Ortega Highway. But a few years back I drove a Chrysler 300M rental from Phoenix to my sister's house in OC (which is hilariously only about 10 minutes from La Casa de Flash!). As traffic in the Riverside area thickened I looked for a shortcut and noticed this little twisty line on the map...



Needless to say the next half hour was a hoot. What an amazing road. Just enough uphill traffic to act as pylons and none downhill. That front-drive 300M was screaming for mercy and the manumatic was probably glowing by the time I hit SJC.



Flash, thanks for the memory.

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[jeffski1]

When/if my house in Missouri ever sells, I will probably buy a home over in Temecula, CA, so I will definitely be cruising the Ortega Hwy on my commute to Long Beach from time to time. Sure, it's probably a little longer drive, but let's see....have a little fun on the way to work -OR- enjoy all the 91 parking lot, I I I mean 91 fwy, has to offer. Hmmm?



BTW, I know of a beautiful little house on Lake of the Ozarks that is available if anyone is interested <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Flash, when I am flying into San Diego from the east, I noticed there is some gorgeous terrain east of I-15 and the mountains in north San Diego County. I think Romona and Julian where the names of a couple of towns out there. I've never been there but it looks absolutely beautiful from the air. I have been meaning to cruise out there to check it out for some time now. Not sure if that is too far for a 'drive' or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

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