[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1349922115' post='133656']

the ones i've done around here, you run up early in the morning, do the event, and go home at the end of the day. $250 including fuel and meals on average for the day. it's a lot easier to deal with

[/quote]

I can top that. Drive the car to work, go to the track, which is 2.5 miles from work, over my lunch break, do a 20 minute session for $25, typically with no other cars on the track, and go back to work.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

lol - i hate you - that's just not right.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Yeah, I deserved that. Not only that, but the lunch break drives give me some one-on-one time with the academy instructors - them taking me for rides in their cars, then riding with me in my car, etc. Now that's what I call driver's education.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[JWahlsten]

I hate you too. Closest track to me in Florida was 4+ hours, and now it's 1.5 hours. I can come home after going to NJMP, but it's certainly a more painful solution...



Yes, the 3K factors in new tires, consumables, hotels, and transport. However, that is typically part of the weekend. Most tracks aren't your local track.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Rap]

The problem with driving the same track is that you begin to top out. I drove Pocono 4 times and realized that although it was still fun and interesting the challenge diminished. If the challenge decreases then so does the learning curve. This doesn't mean one doesn't drive the same track, it means just not your only one. That said, cloud's deal is fantastic and one where learning under his circumstances would progress. We have just hired a family member of the owners of Longpond(Pocono). Hmmmmm

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RS Barn]

I'm going to NJMP next Friday to do something. I'm not sure what I'm allowed to do under the new scope of What DE events should be in Bobs country.

I know the other 25+ guys in the Red (instructor) run group will be driving their prepped cars around a Race course at a pretty fair clip trying to safetly pass the other guys. BTW, most PCA instructors are current or past race drivers who pass on their knowledge to newbies.

PCA has a safe and controlled learning enviornment for beginning through experienced drivers. The upper run groups have the advantage of "using" the track for whatever their personal goals are during their run groups.

I usually enjoy running with many Club Racers who are just there for the fun of getting around a track fast without the drama or cost of actual race. But they go like hell!!!

PCA has adopted an Extended Passing option at certain DE events. This allows the Red group to pass anywhere on the track as long as you get a signal from car you are overtaking. This has reduced any jam ups due to speed differential of cars. With that option comes a huge resonibility but more side by side driving.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[94SilverCab]

I'm sure you will be providing Driver Education, since I expect you will school them on how well a 968 performs on the track.



Jay

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='JWahlsten' timestamp='1349946995' post='133663']

Most tracks aren't your local track.

[/quote]

Yeah, that's the problem for me, too. The track that's so close to my work is Driveway Austin, which is an academy, not a track where races are held. Hopefully they'll open the F1 track, which is maybe 20 miles from my house, for amateur racing eventually, but I haven't heard any rumors about that yet. $3K race weekends aren't going to happen for me at least the house is paid off, and the kids are gone.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

i've been toying lately with getting my formula license. i think that is the only way i am ever going to be satisfied. i'm just so bored when dragging around a 3000lb car. being enclosed also bugs me. i never liked racing with a roof. it's just not as safe as open cockpit. you can't see anything, and the cage is always more poorly designed from a load transfer and rollover perspective. in an open car, you don't worry about working within the confines of a roof, and put things where they need to be and only where they need to be. even a formula 2000 does 0-60 in 4.2, runs up at about 130mph, pulls 2g in the corners, and stops on a dime. now that's fun! you can also see all around you, so it's much safer.



if i had learned in a bigger and heavier car, i might feel differently. but having started off in a very light car to begin with, the whole idea of tracking a big GT just makes no sense to me. i've had people want me to drive their IT cars and such for them, but i tried it, and while i did well, it bored me silly. it's kind of like trying to make the best time through a canyon dragging a trailer. it's one thing to use such a car to learn to drive, but then it's time to move on. i have never understood the idea. i do understand the idea though when applied to a spec class. the cars are all identical. that makes it just a driver competition. it doesn't matter what the setup spec is, as long as it's identical. i can understand the attraction there, pitting yourself against other drivers, and removing the car and budget from the equation.



i'm quite sure i'm in the minority here, but i'm probably also one of the few here who have experienced things beyond the 968. i'm pretty sure that if others had the same opportunities, they would come to the same conclusions, and be just as bored and frustrated with the car on the track.



but again, what i am talking about is racing and not these kinds of events. people constantly talk about safety, and think that racing is less safe. reality is quite the contrary though. in racing, the course workers have to complete a school before being allowed out there. there are many more of them. rules prevent incidents. there is much more organization. the cars are far more scrutinized. the drivers are far more scrutinized. there are very real penalties for breaking rules. everything about it is safer.



these open events are a train wreck waiting to happen. unskilled workers present a hazard. they are always understaffed. it takes dozens of people to properly staff such an event, and i have never seen more than a dozen or so at any of them, and often as few as 6. cars let out on the track without proper scrutiny and inspection begs for a tragic failure. the lack of requirement of fire equipment and fully track prepared cars in a situation that nears racing speeds and traffic, is a recipe for disaster. as these events get looser, which is certain to happen, as they are mostly done for profit, they become less and less safe.



proceed at your own peril.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

My dream, since I was about 22, was to someday drive in the (now defunct) Barber formula series, which was essentially a spec formula series, where everybody drives identical formula cars provided by the Barber school. But it was insanely expensive - well into five figures for a weekend, as I recall, so my plan was to do this in retirement, as opposed to playing golf (which I suck at), like most retired guys do. Turning my 968 into a track car has been an almost accidental interim step toward that ultimate plan. But seeing how well 968s stack up against their competition, whether in PCA or NASA, tells me it's not such a bad route to go - there definitely seems like a lot of fun to be had, as long as I never set foot in a formula car while I'm using the 968 as my track device.



Driveway Austin does have a few formula cars, and watching them tear around the track is defintely an awesome sight.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[JWahlsten]

I'd have to go with Pete on the well structured nature of the PCA events. Yes, there are independent orgs who are less structured, but you don't have to drive with those if you don't want to. As far as the extended passing rules go, I didn't see it as an issue. NASA also does this in HPDE 3/4. I liked it a lot and would have relieved a lot of frustration for me last weekend. However, I completely understand the necessity to keep it to the upper two run groups. It's not just red, but black as well. I actually like running with Club Racers as they have more consistent lines, corner speeds and braking points. All cars in PCA are required to be teched by a qualified technician prior to the event. I know this won't catch everything, but it does catch a lot of issues prior to arriving at the track.



I have driven cars other than 968s on the track to include front, rear and mid engined platforms. I just like the 968. I've never heard the siren call of the open wheel cars, and am likely better for it. Seems to me it would be irresistible if I had...



Pete,



Who are you running with this weekend?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='JWahlsten' timestamp='1349978094' post='133690']



I have driven cars other than 968s on the track to include front, rear and mid engined platforms. I just like the 968.

[/quote]

That makes me feel better about my decision to track my 968, vs. the other available options. What is it about the 968 that you like compared to other cars you've tracked?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Rap]

Isn't it wonderful where so many people can express an opinion and they are all wrong!

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[JWahlsten]

Of course we are wrong, we're men...



Cloud, I like the balance, the response of the N/A engine, the high polar moment of inertia, and the reliability has been great too. I've done a lot with turbos, and had a supercharged Corrado too...forgot about that one. The car isn't the best at anything necessarily, but it does so many things well. I just think the package deal is really a confluence of factors coming together to make an excellent package. It makes a great street car too. Doesn't hurt the Porsche community thumbs their noses up at it keeping the entry cost low. Makes for a reasonable costs to build or purchase a built track car.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Rap]

JW as I've said before as have others, other Porsche owners have come to me and raved about the 968. Some said they were sorry they got rid of theirs. So while they thumb their noses at the 968 they secretly still love them. We don't need to live with this albatross of hypocrisy.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[JWahlsten]

Some yes, some no. Machs nichts to me. I like 924/944/951/968s. It's all good. I've had one or more 944 variants in some form or another since 1997 except for a short stint in an 84 911 track car. I buy my cars for me. Seems to me you're doing the same. I too got a lot of compliments this last weekend, so maybe opinions are changing. There will remain some of the old guard who only think 356s and 911s are real Porsches, let them live without good A/C. I like fast cars, I really don't care who makes them, and certainly don't lend any weight to the rear engined bias. My list of cars I'd like to have would fill Reggie Jackson's or Maybe half of Jay Leno's garage...



When will I see you at an event? Got one coming up? I'd do another this year if I can find one close. I think I've run out of time to get to the Glen, and Pocono is likely out too. Maybe VIR.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[94SilverCab]

[quote name='Rap' timestamp='1349982956' post='133694']

Isn't it wonderful where so many people can express an opinion and they are all wrong!

[/quote]



You're talking about marriage?, or Flash?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Langley968]

[quote name='Rap' timestamp='1349982956' post='133694']

Isn't it wonderful where so many people can express an opinion and they are all wrong!

[/quote]



<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/clap.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/icon_lol1.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Keep up the debate guys! It's fun to watch from the sidelines while keeping (very) quiet because I have NO contribution to make in this matter...

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Rap]

Oh Jay, if they are all wrong how could it be Flash? Langley quiet, no come on chime in. JW I'm trying to get in to NJMS on 11/3. Currently wait listed. VIR on 11/3 is 8 hours away and although I'd like to try the track, frankly I don't feel like driving that far and long. So planning for next year. Being 13 miles from Pocono means this will be at least one!

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Rap]

So on my tenth track event of this season on a beautiful sunny day in the mid 70's at Pocono, in October, I developed a hole in a tire. When I came in after the run and as I was checking tire pressures I heard a hissing. At the last event I had a similar problem which was the result of a loose valve stem. I was able to fix this after Pablo was kind enough to loan me that tool. This tool was purchased when I got home for future events! The hissing came from a hole on the surface of the tire. A Toyo R888. To compound my problem, for the first time in my life I forgot my phone. Mind you I'm on call always. It would appear that the phone will need to be placed on my ever expanding list of DE items. Who woulda thunk you'd need to do this. Apparently I do. For those of you who have done DE's, this was a BMW group by the way, there is an almost instant comaraderie among participants. This is true even among strangers. So two guys I was parked next too kindly offered their phones. I knew I was in trouble because I had experienced some difficulty getting these tires. After phone calls to the largest tire distributors in NE Pa, I came up empty handed.



My instructor suggested I stay and ride with him to see what we had been talking about in our first two runs. The course at Pocono was the southeast 3. This is my third event there this year and this was a new track section to me. It was new to this entire group. It seems that they have just recently started using it. This event used no cones. Every event this year had breaking cones, turn in cones and apex cones. So this was neat because you picked you spots as you got familiar with the run. This course was a late apex course.



Of course the air leakage prevented me from dpi even this. I limped home stopping occasionly to fill up the tire. I live 16 miles away. So considering I have driven from West Virginia to Connecticut from March to October with no car issues or problems, I consider myself darn lucky!



This of course now brings into sharp relief an issue that I have been ducking by looking for other solutions. What do you do if you break down. Although I upgraded my AAA account to get a tow for distances up to 200 miles this was of course a short step solution. I've contemplated a tire trailer because carrying four tires, which I've yet to do, stretches the room even in the cavernous 968 "coupe" interior. Yet if you break down with a tire trailer you have doubled your problem. I'm not a truck or even a SUV guy. Pulling a trailer would necessitate learning how to navigate two vehicles. This is probably not beyond my mental capacity but never the less a new skill to learn.



The car will now need a suspension modification and perhaps change in the breaking system. To account for the sc. So where does all this money come from? I could sell the other 968 but I enjoy driving it without the discomfort of getting into racing seats that the red car presents. My children are all to old to sell. If I sell my house then I would have to live in the garage which is now attached to the house. So you see this burgeoning dilemma and all because I bought a 968 three years ago! So for all of the conversation about how much should you spend for different 968's for sale and how much it will cost you to bring it up to speed, "Buyer Beware", it could cost you a great deal more than you can imagine!

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.