[tamathumper]

Are you asking if you're mistaken about being anal?

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[Rap]

Certainly not well said. I don't like giving info out.

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[tamathumper]

Ah, agreed! I read it all wrong. Sorry.

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[Rap]

Well after what seems like forever, I am scheduled to pick up my 968 tomorrow. It feels like Xmas and I know I won't sleep well tonite. Santa is coming. Of course I have to pay Santa to get my presents this time! Growing up sucks. I didn't used to have to pay. Amazingly enough this car will end up costing more than my first one which was and is mint. Between a garage and this DE car wow is this stuff expensive. This is of course a willing complaint. Mind you it's going to be a crummy rainy day so my driving will have to be restrained, but I'm twitching in anticipation. Reminds me of a previous life... but I won't go there! Hmmmmmmm

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[Rap]

Well picked up the DE car today. Was having a nice time till I run afoul of da pole lecce. Only by the grace of god did I just get it under triple digits, barely. Policeman says" what we're you driving so fast for?" Talk about a difficult question to answer. Meanwhile he's looking at the cage, the seats and the harness and checking to see if it was inspected for street use. Did that a couple of times. So I didn't go to jail and he cut me a slight break to avoid several charges including reckless. Empty long straightaway going slightly uphill. They generally wait on the downward side. Can you imagine them changing places? Radar detector never had a chance. My eyes worked though. Anyway car is extremely difficult to get in and out of but once your strapped in look out. It seems faster than the white 968. Just pulls great, tight as a ( pick your age) virgin. It needs to be driven on a twisty so I can compare! Little more beat up cosmetically than I remember but that might get better with some work. Hopefully the weather will cooperate and I will get off wait list and do the event in a month at NJ Motorsports!

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[flash]

well, it wouldn't be complete if you didn't get your inaugural ticket. remember this when you are going or coming to your next DE. adrenaline will get you every time. around here, the cops hang out near the track at the beginning and end of the day and pick off the kids like shooting fish in a barrel

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[Rap]

I agree, unfortunately the absolute best I can say here in my defense was I was horribly stupid. Will it happen again? I hope I don't get another ticket! Lol

Perhaps it was the red!

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[JWahlsten]

Went to the track at NJMP Thunderbolt this weekend and had a blast playing with many different types of cars. The weekend was run by the Delaware region of the PCA a small region, and was a very well run event. They don't invite only Porsches making the event much more interesting. My favorite cars to run with were an S2000, an E36 M3 with some really cool mods, and a couple of Caymans. The kicker was Friday was a solo only day, and offered 4 hours of track time. I didn't use it all, but did use 3.5 hours... The rest of the weekend was pretty much a regular DE weekend with about 2 hours of track time per day. Only one other 968, and very few older Porsches around. Rain on Sunday cleared the place out.



Impressions for the weekend. The car worked wonderfully with no major issues. It used less than 1 qt of oil, and never exceeded the 1000 mark on the temp gauge. My biggest concern was the temp went up to the 1000 line fairly quickly and stayed there. I'll be swapping out the fan switch and changing the water pump/thermostat while doing the belts this winter. I have no temp issues on the street, so will be looking at the radiator, coolant, fans, etc. The dang thing needs more negative camber. I had an alignment done prior to the weekend adding more, and it still wasn't enough. I currently have -1.8 with 0 toe up front and -1.9 with 0.1 toe-in/side in the rear. The rears look great, but the fronts need at least another -.5. Looks like camber plates are in the future. The strut and caster braces help A LOT.



Has anyone considered tapping the back of the head to remove the air bubble that occurs at the back of the head? It was a recommendation this weekend from a mechanic I trust who has built a number of 944 race engines. Is this a big issue with the 968 as well? They have similar heads. I'm thinking of doing the headgasket this winter as preventative maintenance, and having it tapped then would be simple.



I love what this 20 year old car can do with minimal mods...

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[flash]

if you are finding that you think you need more negative camber, then the rest of the setup is wrong.



beyond that, stiffer springs will help, but only if you have the right shocks and struts to control them.



sway bars are a real issue with this car. the M030 bars are not nearly big enough.



i am pulling a set of racer's edge camber plates off of a car tomorrow, and i am pretty sure the guy will sell them.

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[JWahlsten]

You may very well be right. I could change the sway bars, and get less roll. However, you're the only one I know who has bars big enough to control the roll. There aren't really any off the shelf solutions that I know better than the factory bars. Tarrets could be an option. I have good grip in the corners, but it's pretty obvious by looking at the tires I am getting too much wear on the outer portion. I won't even say the edge as it's more than that.



I really don't want to go to really big spring rates without changing the shocks. I know the Konis can handle up to about 350lbs up front, and putting coilovers on the rear is an option. We've discussed rates in the past and are pretty much on the same page on those. I view the suspension as a system and don't have any desire to screw it up by making changes that will negatively affect the handling of the car. If I'm going to do it, I'd rather do it right like Cloud.



The car feels good and has excellent balance. I'm likely at the point where I need to just drive it until I'm ready to bite the bullet and make it a track car, or sell it and change to a race car. This is the conundrum created when one drives a track car on the street (dual purpose cars have just too many compromises).



I'll be happy to take the RE camber plates if he wants to be rid of them.

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='Rap' timestamp='1349389382' post='133375']

. Was having a nice time till I run afoul of da pole lecce. Only by the grace of god did I just get it under triple digits, barely.. Empty long straightaway going slightly uphill. They generally wait on the downward side. Can you imagine them changing places? Radar detector never had a chance.

[/quote]



LOL and that's why they changed places. Great story. Glad you didn't go to jail as it does end that way for some. Congrats again on the car.

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[flash]

jw - no amount of camber is going to correct a soft suspension. unfortunately you are going to be limited there. adding a lot of camber is only going to make the car miserable on the street and can actually cost you time in the corners.



you need to think in terms of "net contact patch". when you add a lot of negative camber, you actually decrease the contact patch on the inside tire. that forces more load to the outside tire. the more you add, the more transfer. it's actually self defeating.



you could also easily be too low on front tire pressure. many people take out too much pressure, hoping to gain grip, but in reality it increases the temps, which increases wear. have you measured your tire temps across the tire yet?



in addition to ira (tarret), i think weltmeister makes a set of adjustable bars that can be set stiffer than M030

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[JWahlsten]

Good points on adding more negative camber. I'd rather not have to add more if I don't have to. I didn't have a pyrometer with me, and will look at the temps across the tire next time. I didn't lower my pressures and am pretty sure those are at least in the ballpark. I was at 41psi hot all the way around the car. The rears look perfect.



I will try to add a couple of psi to the fronts for the next go around. 42-43 psi may be the ticket, but the pyrometer will be the telling factor. The front has good grip. I am really just working tire wear at this point. If anything I had slight oversteer in most of the corners. The slower the corner the more the car tended toward oversteer. Nothing gross unless the driver inputted too much throttle too quickly.



I'd love to stiffen the car and make it right, but I will allow the compromise (too soft for the track) for now. I will look into the Weltmeisters/Tarrets to replace the M030 bars. Ira's stuff is on my old 944 racecar now, and I know his stuff is high quality. I'd like to be able to adjust front and rear. The soft springs do have the advantage of allowing me to use the curbing without upsetting the car and make up time on faster cars who couldn't...

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='JWahlsten' timestamp='1349783323' post='133553']

If I'm going to do it, I'd rather do it right like Cloud.

[/quote]

Why, thank you. Hopefully this will turn out to be the case. Still plugging away at this massive project in whatever spare time I have. I hope to have it running before the end of 2012. My lap times better be cut in about half, for all the time and money I've spent... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[JWahlsten]

LOL. It's true though. You took the same logic based approach I would...then threw it out the window, and went whole hog. Can't wait to hear how the car is on phenomenal shocks, and with a fresh engine.



I have to admit it would be nice to have the same power to weight ratio as a Cayman. Getting pulled down the straights after being right up on them in the corners stinks. Having to lift while waiting for a passing signal really kills momentum.

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[Rap]

Thanks Rhudeboye. JWahlstein you said 41 psi hot all around. What were they cold? I started at 36 and got about the same as you. Tires grip and where ok.

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[flash]

lots to consider regarding tire pressures. many factors change how the tire heats up. you really have to measure the temps of the tires to see where to go. you really can't go from one car to another, unless they are both set up the same, and are on the same track on the same day.



things that affect the tires include but are not limited to:

tire composition

tire size

tire age

starting pressure

tread thickness

weight of the car at each corner

ground temperature - this affects heat dissipation and heat soak

spring rates - this affects load transfer

body roll - also affects load transfer

shock valving - this affects the elastic requirements of the tire, which factors into the heat generation

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[JWahlsten]

Flash is right. Lots of factors to consider. I have Nitto NT-01s and started with 33 cold and was getting about 8 psi of growth. I started on Friday with 36 cold and ended the first session over 43psi... My mods are posted earlier, but are pretty simple. Koni adjustables 951 M030s without springs on the rear, M030 sways, D1R Braces (strut, caster, and chassis), RS Barn header and stage II chip, airbox mod, and that's about it... Hawk HT-10 pads



My car is corner balanced, pretty much stock weight except for removing the rear carpet and now 996 GT2/3 seats.



Interestingly enough, Thunderbolt is primarily right hand turns, but the lefts on the course equalize the pressures pretty well. I did end up with slightly more wear on the lefts, but only slight. I really need to take temps. I should have known better...

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[flash]

rear ride height will affect this as well. even though you are corner balanced, if the rear is higher than the front, it will put a faster transfer rate to the front tires, increasing load there. it will also make the rear tail-happy. i see this a lot when people install coilovers up front, but then lower the front below the point of the eccentric rear limit. i have to correct that on the car that is in the garage right now. it got set up all wrong from the get-go, and i'm going to straighten it out this weekend.

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[RS Barn]

I had giant custom sways on the FH with Konis and fairly soft springs as required by rules in FH series. Even though there was minimal body roll the car was extremely darty.

I believe the cars work best with a balance of spring rate and sways. Once you raise spring rate to deal with cornering loads (on track) you need to potentially lower sway rates.

We still run MO30 bars on our race winning cars, but with much higher spring rates. I know a few teams who run really high spring rates and actually lower sway bar rates.

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