[Rap]

I, of course, have come to the conclusion that after this 3 day event at Watkins Glen that to continue this with my car will only ruin a really nice car. After being blessed with a blue streaking from the guardrail that I hit flush, instead of crushing the front end and a lot of chips that weren't there before, it's time to rethink this. I'm thinking, saints forbid, of another vehicle not a 968. I was amazed at everyone who reverently spoke of the 968 in general. The compliments I received on my car certainly felt good, but a general theme was don't ruin such a good looking car. Some of you have seen it so I'm not really exaggerating much! Cayman prices are all over the map. 1983 to 89 911's can be had reasonably. But then so can 1999 to 2003 911's. A 944 with a fair amount of mods might provide enough power and certainly some good balance but then I have a car older than mine. Same is true for the 80's 911. The car was a dream in the corners and now for the third time I have watched it out corner some really well set up cars. Yes one might argue that these cars just weren't driven that well. The groupings rounded that out some. So gentleman, any suggestions or advice.

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[flash]

get another 968. buy a cosmetically rough one, set it up, and go for it.

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[Rap]

I thought that you didn't believe these were good track cars. My intent at this point is not to race just DE. Have I misunderstood previous discussions we've had!

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[flash]

lol - i don't. that doesn't mean that you won't enjoy it.



as a DE thing, there is a certain logic to be had by essentially driving the same model car both on the street and on the track. i did that for years. i had one for street and one for track, but they were both the same model car. they were just set up differently. this allowed me to "practice" in the street car, and when i hopped in the track car, there was no ramp up time to get the feel, because it was so close to the street car. i was in a very light car (under 1900lbs), so it wasn't too bad, or so i thought.



the real problem i ran into was when i got behind the wheel of a formula car. that ruined it for me. now, pretty much nothing in the way of a production car is going to make me happy. they are all too big and heavy by comparison.



sure, i can have some laughs and take my car out on the track. it's always good for tuning up bad habits and such. i just have to keep my expectations down when it comes to what the car can and cannot do. not only is it over 1000 lbs heavier than the car i was racing, but it's more than double the size and weight of the formula car. that just adds up to me being unhappy.



none of that means that somebody else won't think the 968 is the cat's meow on the track.



it's all relative

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[Rap]

Cats meow. Wow now that's a blat from the past!. Well learning to drive a different car is another consideration as opposed to driving two of the same and practicing on your daily makes sense. The set up would be somewhat daunting for me as opposed to a turn key car. Age is another. Some things to think about. Thanks!

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[flash]

age isn't really a bother in a track car. you rip out most of the stuff that would fail on a street car. a good DE 968 would not have AC, power windows, interior, stereo, or any of those kinds of things. basically a street legal race car. you should even be able to carry a set of track wheels in there, swap them at the track, and then back to a set of 16s to go home.



as for setup, you can set it up however you want. i wouldn't get too nuts to start off. just make sure everything is up to snuff and go for it. as you get faster, then you start messing with the car.



probably the easiest way to gain consistency and smoothness in your driving

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[tamathumper]

Whatever you do, don't wreck your nice 968! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> Picking a second 968 to track gives you the opportunity to swap parts between cars when something seems amiss on one of them.

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[craigawoodman]

It is all relative. Do you want to be on the top step of the podium, or challenging yourself to master you craft. Regardless of the car, you can have fun trying to drive the doors off anything (sometimes the slower the car and the lower the level of grip - the more fun it can be and more sane speeds). The problem with most new cars, is that the limit is so high, that to even get near it potentially means an expensive mistake.



I have had the same issues with potentially converting my car to a tarmac rally car - it doesn't seem fair and there is now 7 years of history that you don't want to throw away. Have a look at Eric Bana's movie "The Beast" which is about his childhood car and Targa Tasmania.



If you buy something new and do it up, there is no emotional involvement. But then it means more rego, tyres, insurance, etc. The question is how do you want to enjoy your 968. If it is going on long coutnry drives to somewhere, don't do it, but if it is DE events, then it makes sense to have a car you will use and enjoy. After all - it is only a car and yes, it hurts personally when you stuff up and bend it, but unless it is huge, it is repairable (pride takes some more time).

Rap,



Sorry, I should have also commented - if you want to be on the top step of the podium, you will need lots of money to throw at the problem. If not, be content that on a bang for bucks equation, you are beating most of them hands down.

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[rl968]

Funny, I was in this same boat with my 86 targa. I tracked it a few times, but realized I didn't want to mess it up or make heavy mods as its in concours condition. Hence, I bought the 968. I'm also hesitant to rip into the 968, but I'm getting closer as i realize the car will never really be worth much.

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[Cloud9...68]

Rap,



You didn't mention whether you were thinking of having the "DE car" be a pure track car that you'd never drive on the street, or a sual-purpose car. If the former, do you have a way to get it to and from the track?



Also, as others have mentioned, converting a car to a track car is A LOT of work, and if you don't do it all yourself (as I'm crazy enough to do), it can get mega expensive, depending on how far you want to go. And it is a very slippery slope, so it can turn into a real money pit.



Not sure that helps at all. I can definitely relate to your experience, though. When I started doing DEs, I was by far the slowest car out there - I was routinely getting passed by multi-car caravans, including a Smart Car or two <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> . But as I got more seat time, I finally got the hang of it, and got to the point where the car, and not my driving, became the limiting factor in my lap times. So, after kicking around several options, I'm where I am now, tearing my 968 (which, like RL, I discovered wasn't worth more than a few scoops of chicken poop) apart on the way to being much more of a track-dedicated car, while remaining streetable enough to drive to and from the track. But I'm nearly a year and a half into it, with the eta for completion remaining very uncertain.



As with so many other questions (drug legalization, gun control, tax policy, the meaning of life, etc), definitely no easy answers.

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[craigawoodman]

Rap,



It is a bit like marriage - yes you can go and get something different (newer model, lower kurb weight, bigger rims and bumpers), but will it be worth the personal and emotional cost - and after 6 months, will it be that different afterall and will you miss what you previously had? Unless you are starting with a real pig of a car (which I don't think the 968 is), then there is only incremental value in upgrading. If you spend mega bucks on the fastest, flashest new car - how will you feel as it heads towards the armco?



We had a 997 GT3 RS (Series 1) lose it and just glance the armco a couple of years ago. It did minimal damage to the rear bumber assembly. My comment at the time was that the repair cost for that small incident would be more than my entire car's worth - and it was. Most modern cars (unless you are an electronics wizzard) you cannot spanner on. So it is all horses for courses. Sometimes you are better with the devil you know.

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[flash]

it's no easy task to figure this one out. i think it really comes down to your personality. if you are a "type a" you will never be happy with a compromise car. if you just want to go out and drive fast once in a while on the track, then a dual purpose car will likely be fine.



ultimately for me, being the uncompromising sort i am (ya think?), i would rather not go out on the track at all, than to go out and constantly be frustrated.some people can play the same video game, constantly trying to improve their score. for me, once i have determined that i can do something, i can project forward to the ultimate conclusion. i don't actually have to do it, in order to be bored and want to move on to a new challenge. but this is another matter involving some serious couch time.



i am also not a fan of dual purpose cars, as they are less safe on the track. they tend to have less maintenance than dedicated track cars, because problems tend to develop over time and be less noticed initially, and the owner generally needs to keep the car on the road, so many things get pushed back that should be addressed.



now, a street legal race car, which is only driven back and forth to the track, would resolve the issue of a trailer and storage, but would still have some of the compromises of a dual purpose car, as some things you would want for the track are not legal on the street, and some things you would delete on the track, you might really miss when driving back and forth.



if and when i get back to wanting to go back out there, and if i still don't have a place to store it, i'll rent a storage unit and stick it in there, complete with a trailer. i just sold my trailer though, as i do not anticipate this happening any time soon. i just can't make up my mind what i want to drive, and until i do that, it is all moot.



so, it really depends on your wallet, your personality, how badly you feel the need to go out there, and how fast you want to go.

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[94SilverCab]

Totally different tack here, the purpose of a DE is "Driver Education"...I would strongly recommend a Miata. Similar power to weight ratio to the 968, highly tossable, lots of parts goodies and about 1/8 the cost of owning and maintaining a Porsche. I had an absolute blast in my Miata!



Jay

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[Cloud9...68]

No argument that Miatas can make great track cars. Buckets of cash cheaper than running a Porsche, too. I often wonder if I shouldn't have gone that route (or with my first choice, a 2nd gen Toyota MR2). Honda S2000s are great, too, but they can be surprising pricey, from what I've read (in Grassroots Motorsports).

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[Rap]

Well gents thanks for all the good advice. I don't need an expensive fast car. I'm here to learn to become a better driver and have fun. I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage to many of you due to not only my lack of mechanical experience but my lack pf desire to get really into this aspect as many of you do. I like how the 968 handles. It's been very impressive in the corners compared to many of these faster cars. So to grab a cosmetically challenged but serviceable, turn key 968 at a good price makes sense. Driving the same car makes sense. However, since there were more 944 's produced does it make sense to go with a higher production car with more parts and aftermarket parts accessibility? Jays suggestion regarding Miatas is another good idea. Tons of those around and relatively inexpensive. At this stage I think I'm a step away from a pure track car at thos stage. That seems to entail a truck and trailer. I'd like to be able to drive this car to the track. I've only done 3 DE's and don't want to outpace myself. But to destroy a nice car seems foolish. So the search continues!

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[Joel968]

Please ban all member who promote Miatas!!!!!!!!!! They are like a swarm of buzzing gnats at the track. Most of those guys must own body shops based on the way they run into each other.

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[tamathumper]

[quote name='Joel968' timestamp='1344565647' post='130789']

Please ban all member who promote Miatas!!!!!!!!!! They are like a swarm of buzzing gnats at the track. Most of those guys must own body shops based on the way they run into each other.

[/quote]

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/icon_lol1.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Cloud9...68]

So you've only done three DEs. In that case, you might want to consider getting a DE car with some "headroom." I know this is something of a controversial subject, as many are of the opinion that the capabilities of a DE car don't matter all that much - that you can have a blast driving any car at its limits, no matter how slow. Personally, and this is just me, I didn't find that to be the case. At first, yes - when I was the slowest car on the track, the fun part was climbing the learning curve as my driving skills rose to the level of my car. But the plateau I hit with this car, while dramatically faster than where I started, was at a lap time that was too slow to be really fun, especially when sharing the track with much more capable machines (I hate getting passed). I concluded that for this stuff to be really fun, I'd either have to sell the 968 and buy something faster, or upgrade the 968. I went the latter route - hopefully it was a good decision, but time will tell. It all depends on what you consider fun.

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[Rap]

It's nice to blow them away in the corners but absolutely stinks on the straights! So it's still,at trying to figure out which way to go. 968, 911- what year. 944 turbo

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[blau]

Pete has a 968 M030/<acronym title='Limited Slip Differential'>LSD</acronym> listed for sale on the RS Barn site. You may want to see if he's still got it?



http://www.rsbarn.com/sale_968MO_95.html

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