[redhorse]

[quote name='flash' post='66449' date='Feb 3 2009, 08:39 AM']getting material is not difficult, and any plastic shop can do that for you and even make the parts from drawings - however, half of those plugs cover up screws, and that is where i think you will find the problem



i seriously doubt that any glue will hold enough to accommodate the twisting and flexing that happens to a dash - i think that is going to become a constant and frustrating thing



stopping short of that, you can fill the hoes with switches - i moved many of mine around - the blanks also bugged me almost as much as the locations of the switches they did use - also, you can change the hazard switch to the black 944 switch - that helps clean it up a LOT more than you might think



take a look at the thread "switch switching"[/quote]



Yes, I agree that blank plastic can be purchased from lots of sources. And...make parts? There was no stated intent to have anyone fabricate trim pieces. The factory pieces are complex mouldings and it would be futile (or at least very expensive) to replicate those parts from scratch.



I obviously would not fill those plug openings that hide mounting screws. Sigh....as said, the intent is to fill the rectangular openings after removing the Hazard switch and the clock, and the round hole after deleting the cigarette lighter. That's it, and yes I know that there is a temp sensor port on that trim too, and I wouldn't fill that either (although the sensor opening could probably be placed lower at the bottom of the dash -- actually that is an idea I need to investigate further).



Plastic welding is the intended approach, although some glues are basically chemical welds. And, for either of those to work, it is necessary to match the filler material to the original plastic and with any glue or filler material needed.



So there are three items I intend to remove altogether, not replace with something else! There is little to be gained to replace what I view as CLUTTER of one type with clutter of another type. Besides, what kind of switch fits that large rectangular opening left by removing the clock? And what switch fills that round hole left by the cigar lighter (and before someone says it, I do not want to put an S2000 start button there)?



I give up on this thread...somehow the intent of what I want to do is not coming across. Thanks for the well intentioned information.

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[flash]

got it



having tried this kind of thing before many moons ago, and failing miserably, i don't think you will be successful at any kind of "filling" or "welding" process - it will be very evident where the previous locations were - instead of clutter, it will look like patchwork where your new "plugs" are



i think you would be better off making a new piece, minus the desired holes, and trying to use either the factory plugs that cover the screws, or use screws that stand out deliberately

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[redhorse]

OK, so I read the postings in this thread from those of you who want to replace the bright red 968 hazard switch with the very dark red version (when not lit it looks almost black) from the 944, and have a suggestion to offset the price of a new or used switch. I have seen really high bids on eBay Motors for those bright red switches from the 968. Sell yours there, and buy a used 944 switch. There have been a few nice ones (944 versions) that sold in recent weeks for about $10. There are deals, indeed; I recently bought the corresponding dash trim for $19 that still had the hazard switch, cigar lighter, and clock installed.



Watch the listings daily; listings tend to disappear quickly when the price is "right".

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[flash]

lol - bought the dark one (indeed looks black when it's off)



never got around to selling the big red one - good idea though - i had it up here for sale for a long time - never sold - at one point i was even wiling to trade for beer - i guess ebay is the place to do it - i just never seem to get around to it - i have a ton of stuff i should put up there, and it keeps growing - i really need to get it all out of my shop



maybe this week



on the plastic thing, have you considered a plastics shop? they could probably knock that out entire center section for a couple hundred bucks in any kind of plastic you like - some nice screws (maybe black socket head cap screws) and it could look pretty cool

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[redhorse]

[quote name='flash' post='66779' date='Feb 9 2009, 10:59 PM']got it



having tried this kind of thing before many moons ago, and failing miserably, i don't think you will be successful at any kind of "filling" or "welding" process - it will be very evident where the previous locations were - instead of clutter, it will look like patchwork where your new "plugs" are



i think you would be better off making a new piece, minus the desired holes, and trying to use either the factory plugs that cover the screws, or use screws that stand out deliberately[/quote]



If you know someone or a shop that can duplicate this elaborately curved trim piece, I certainly would be interested to know. With it curving outwards at the right end, while also "wafering" from the point of the glove box knob to the right edge and then taking about a 135 degree bend backwards, and having those depressed "slots" for the air outlet...well nothing of that sort is impossible, I guess. But while studying the original, even with hopeful thoughts and wishes, getting something fabricated to duplicate this piece seems improbable:



   



You touched on the very the reason why I asked my question in the first place -- from what plastic is the trim made. Because yes, welding or gluing when the materials are matched will work. That was the point of seeking to learn the plastic type used by Audi or Porsche to manufacture the dash trim pieces. Such processes are used in aircraft and automotive fabrication shops all the time (to mention just two examples I know about). The reason they fail is when the plastic is not matched, or the plastic is a type that does not lend to chemical manipulation once taking a "set" or curing.



I watched a TV show this past weekend where a stock console from an early 70s Trans Am was modified slightly using new plastic pieces chemically welded to the original console pieces. This was done by a professional interior fabricator in Orange County (or Corona) who does that sort of thing for client vehicles on a daily basis. He used a liquid in a bottle that looked like eye drops and let it flow along the seams. The chemical immediately created a plastic weld that he almost instantly stopped by spraying another chemical that was an aerosol. It literally took seconds once the plastic was cut to the right shape.



The pieces that I will be working with on the dash trim are rectangles or a circle, so once welded in and with the weld seams filled proud, the plastic can be sanded flush and smooth to the surface level; even polished if you want to go to that much trouble. I have seen it done in fabrication shops that specialize in instrument cases. I have also seen it done at Raytheon, Sun Microsystems, Boeing and Lockheed-Martin where prototype mock-ups were hand made (just wish I had access to a commercial shop like that -- those shops can not, for obvious reasons).



Really, doing what I want to do is as simple as correctly identifying the plastic type involved and matching with the materials needed. And of course allowing for having the skills to do the fabrication. When your efforts failed, it may have been that the materials used were not chemically compatible in the strictest sense.



I guess I will have to send one of my plastic pieces off to a professional lab for testing. Was just hoping to avoid that expense and the loss of a trim piece. In any event, when I know the plastic type, I will post for the one interested person in the thread. And, I will post pictures of the modified trim (with in progress pics if I do the work myself).



Thanks to all for the information.

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[redhorse]

[quote name='flash' post='66781' date='Feb 9 2009, 11:20 PM']lol - bought the dark one (indeed looks black when it's off)



never got around to selling the big red one - good idea though - i had it up here for sale for a long time - never sold - at one point i was even wiling to trade for beer - i guess ebay is the place to do it - i just never seem to get around to it - i have a ton of stuff i should put up there, and it keeps growing - i really need to get it all out of my shop



maybe this week



on the plastic thing, have you considered a plastics shop? they could probably knock that out entire center section for a couple hundred bucks in any kind of plastic you like - some nice screws (maybe black socket head cap screws) and it could look pretty cool[/quote]



I saw two of the 968 red switches sell for big $ (relatively) in the last 2-3 weeks alone. Would not be surprised if you got over $50 for it, if the icons are clean and still complete. I never thought about who might be buying them, just assumed it was folks needing a replacement for one that went faulty; but it would be hilarious to find if 944 owners are buying them to give their cars more of the "updated" 968 look...



I watch 944/968 parts postings almost on a daily basis, and have for almost a year. When watching each day, it only takes about 10-15 minutes to peruse the latest postings for each day. Lol, I really do have a life but 15 minutes of it are made available for my hobby most days. It is also interesting (and sometimes frustrating) to watch uninformed buyers bid up OK used parts to levels above the price of the part new if bought from one of the low cost parts houses or Sunset! 968 door handles and exterior mirrors are prime examples.

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[flash]

welding et all - yes, i've seen that kind of thing done too - the problem is going to be the finish - i have yet to be able to match it - i even went so far as to order a new piece directly from porsche, and that finish did not match either - it seems they changed vendors, and there is a coating on top that didn't match - i was VERY disappointed



i'm curious though where the shop was - i am in orange county



if you can do the drawings, any plastics shop can match the shapes - it's a pretty simple process actually to form and cut the pieces



did the switches sell for those kinds of numbers? mine is perfect and i have no issue putting it up there (once i get off my lazy butt and actually do it)

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[PorscheDude]

Use hot glue or plastic weld to hold in "plugs" from the back side.

Then put a very light skim coat of bondo over the whole thing, sand and use a high quality paint.

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[flash]

if i could find the paint they used, i'd be there myself

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[Ryan]

On that "Whips" show they are always doing custom stuff to plastic dash and consol panels. They seem to use a paste like plastic and a texture sheet to transfer the original texture to the new section. Then spray with vinyl paint and woo-hoo....

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[redhorse]

<!--quoteo(post=66798:date=Feb 10 2009, 10:20 AM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Feb 10 2009, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->welding et all - yes, i've seen that kind of thing done too - the problem is going to be the finish - i have yet to be able to match it - i even went so far as to order a new piece directly from porsche, and that finish did not match either - it seems they changed vendors, and there is a coating on top that didn't match - i was VERY disappointed

i'm curious though where the shop was - i am in orange county

if you can do the drawings, any plastics shop can match the shapes - it's a pretty simple process actually to form and cut the pieces

did the switches sell for those kinds of numbers? mine is perfect and i have no issue putting it up there (once i get off my lazy butt and actually do it)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sorry, I have been busy at work and just now getting back after a month. As for the red 968 hazard switch, I did monitor one to closing of the auction and it was well over $50....although it has been a couple of months and I don't remember the number. For some reason $76 comes to mind, which I thought was crazy at the time but checked a catalogue price and it was way over $100. It looked like new, so maybe someone thought they stole it for $50-80, and maybe they did.

I don't remember the name of the shop (if they even announced it), but I remember that he was from OC or Corona....that stood out in my mind because he was in Nashville helping to do a segment on Muscle Cars. It is the sequence they did recently where they rebuilt a blue and while Firebird convert. You might go to the producer's web site and find the information somewhere, like in credits. Or, if you really want to know you probably could call or email the producer. In any event, the guy was great at the fabrication and when he was done the console on the 1969(?) looked like it came that way from GM. If I still lived in Huntington Beach I would have him re-do my Porsche.

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[redhorse]

<!--quoteo(post=66800:date=Feb 10 2009, 10:36 AM:name=PorscheDude)-->QUOTE (PorscheDude @ Feb 10 2009, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Use hot glue or plastic weld to hold in "plugs" from the back side.
Then put a very light skim coat of bondo over the whole thing, sand and use a high quality paint.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Right, that's the idea once I learn what the factory plastic is made of so when the welding is done it will work and hold. I do not care so much about the surface texture because I was planning to go smooth. However, by the time I have the pieces modified I might want a fine texture (and I am not fond of the factory version anyway). If so there are many texture coatings out there that would give me something to paint over. Since I would be redoing all of the pieces it would not be a problem of trying to match the stock look, which I agree would be next to impossible.

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