[flash]

I've been thinking a bit lately about the 968 and its ultimate destiny and place in history. A lot of things go into determining collectibility and value. We see auto auctions all the time. They have fully restored classics and also prepared cars. They all seem to have widely ranging values within the same model.



Our car may never become a true classic or collectible car, but I thought we might ponder those things that matter to people, and see what we can conclude.



One of the most talked about things that seem to affect value is the issue of originality. That one is a bit convoluted for us, because Porsche did some really interesting things prior to delivery of a lot of these cars. It leaves a pretty big gap in determining what was original and what is not.



There were complete body color changes, interior changes, M030 setups, and a whole lot more, all of which happened prior to delivery to the dealership, and all of which were re-stickered, but a lot of which do not show up in the PCNA database (there are entire cars that don't show up in that, so I'm not surprised).



Then there were the dealership changes that don't show up anywhere at all, and have little to no documentation, but have the same parts and installations as if they were done in Germany.



Then there are the enthusiast cars that may have some or all of the parts of a particular option.



We all know that Club Sports could be ordered with any or all of the things that made a car a Club Sport. Those didn't come over here as such though.



As an example, we have seen a lot of M030 cars out there. There are a number of them that were prepared in Germany, some more that were done on the east coast when they got off the boat, and before going to the dealerships, and then some that the dealerships did for the customer. Then there are the cars that an enthusiast has set up with the components. This was a pretty easy process, as it was just struts, shocks, springs, brakes, swaybars, and wheels. All was bolt on stuff, and you could convert a car in less than a day. I've seen a few of these cars now, in each category. You really can't tell one from the next.



The same could be said of the upgraded factory stereo systems.



Similarly, the same could be said of factory wheel upgrades, or heated seats.



My question is this: Does it matter? If it's the same parts, installed the same way, and by Porsche, who is to say if it's original or not? Does it even matter who installed the stuff? Does it affect the value? If so, why?

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[ds968]

Right or wrong, the " perception is reality " concept applies almost universally, so anything produced and / or installed at the factory will always have greater value, be considered "original" and viewed as better than the exact same option or parts if installed subsequently, even by a Porsche dealer. Does it make a difference to the 968 ? I doubt these cars will take their place on the iconic category shelf no matter how much time passes by..so inn that sense probably minimal impact to none, IMO

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[Rap]

I'm new to the car but I am always amazed at how car guys speak in almost reverential tones about the 968. Certainly somewhat different than the 944 or 924. Not to put those two cars down. I've heard this on the east coast, again my time and experience is limited. Never the less it caught my ear. What's it mean? Who knows? I would think a hand built car has some sort of value to someone!

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[flash]

ds - ok, but what if you didn't know who installed it? for example, you go to your dealer, and you tell them you want a car with particular options. you pay for the car with those options. it isn't on the lot, so they tell you they will get it for you.



when you get it, you have no idea who installed the parts, but they are all installed correctly. does it really matter to you if they were done at the factory, at the porsche distribution facility, or at the dealer? they don't tell you, you have no documentation, you just get the car with the things on it



what is the reality and what is the perception? the car came to the first owner exactly as if it had been done in germany, and they have no knowledge to the contrary.



it's really no different than pre-delivery bumper resprays that happen to 3 out of every 100 cars of every make out there. a respray and not "original" paint, but still under all warranty of new, and delivered without any notification to the buyer. that's the law. they don't have to tell you what they do prior to delivery to the dealership.

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[tamathumper]

Now that the warranty is expired (by almost two decades), it makes no difference to me, and it's hopefully been long enough that if the part wasn't installed incorrectly, it would be obvious by now...



If the factory installed it, it was most likely done right. If the dealer installed it (when the car was new) it is moderately likely it was done right. If the previous owner installed it, it's a crap shoot.

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[craigawoodman]

If the 968 is going to be truly iconic and collectable, it should not matter what has been done to it. If you look at a 73 2.7 Carrera RS, it does not matter what has been done to it or how poor a condition it is in, matching numbers of engine and chassis will be important, but the chassis number is the real key, matched to a correct engine number.



Do I think the 968 will reach this league - no. Look at the 914-6, it was a great car for it's time, but does not have the price appreciation of pre-73 911's. As the last of the breed, the 968 will have some collectability, it was sold in small numbers and was a good car. It will be a bit like the 993 - last of a line.



I don't think what was fitted at the dealer versus the factor will matter that much at all.

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[mgustus]

I'm new to the 968 and certainly don't have the expertise some of the folks here have. I live on the east coast in S.C. and every time I take the car to an event its gets glowing remarks. Would that extend to someone's pocket book, don't know. I'll bring it up to the experts at the Euro Auto Festival 2012. I have entered the car and don't expect too many other 968's there. It'll be fun to listen and learn.

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[flash]

with some stuff, i would tend to agree that it might matter if it was done at the factory or not. for example, i would be a bit concerned about stereo stuff or phones, or things like that. however, things that would not make any difference would be bolt on stuff like shocks, struts, brakes, wheels, yada yada. pretty hard to mess that up.

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[Gotter]

As far as the 968 goes - in that it is a Porsche - we will win some badges for being esoteric, maybe a trophy for uniqueness.... but the lay-person (at least in the states) sees Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin.... all the Erotic, err...... exotic cars as single lineage makes. Lamborghini changes names every once in a while, but they only make one model at a time. Ferrari the same. Porsche equals 911, Vantage from AM.... and not entirely the people's fault.

Years down the road, will a well-kept, pristine, D1R-rich 968 garner a high price? Yes. But not by the masses. The masses know the 911, in all of it's inCARnations (wah-wah). But the 968 will be revered by the few, the knowledgable, .... the Esoteric.



And isn't that one of the reasons we love the car int he first place? Because it's NOT a 911?

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[ds968]

@flash : would not make a difference to me, and you're absolutely correct that most people would not have a way of knowing what was done to ithe car and by whom ( who installed the OEM parts, etc. ) but I thought you might have been referring to collectors who some day might look at the 968 as a classic ( yeah, good luck with that LOL ) and I think most of those guys place a greater value on the " purism " factor . Now, to those in the know I suspect an enhanced ( modded ) 968 would be more sought after because of all the aftermarket products which make it faster, better handling, prevent known problems, etc etc.. and thus more valuable to them.

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[flash]

again, because there were so many cars that had things done, and pre-delivery, they are still "original", and would have no difference than if it were done in germany, so what is truly "pure"



would you discount a car that had the correct wheels that were installed by the dealership at the time of purchase? center caps? i don't think anybody would. where do you draw the line?

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[94SilverCab]

I left valuation of my 968 to posterity the moment the first hole was cut into the air box. In general, a low mileage, unmolested vehicle will eventually result in higher auction value, with a few exceptions. A modified vehicle may command a higher price through provenance (a Steve McQueen car will be more valuable than a similar car of same vintage and condition). I hope that my own 968 will acquire a certain amount of provenance through my association with 968Forums, D1R and RS Barn (including prototype aftermarket modifications), and in having photographs from many evens which I have sponsored, hosted or attended.



JMHO,



Jay

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[968Syncro]

I think the 968 will rise in price with time, but that significant bump won't happen until another 10 or 20 years.



The main discriminators for "classic car" value tend to be the model, not the options. Too bad that the 968 did have more model designations.

- So things like Club Sport will mean something.

- Or the "Sport" model that was only in Great Britain if I remember correctly (or was it ROW).

- Cab should mean higher price (like with 356s now).

- Manual vs Tiptronic may be more valuable, since future owners are probably interested in "Sports car" not daily driver. (Who knows, the Tip is great, maybe it will sneak up in value).

- Options, even the M030 will not mean much.

- Original condition and low miles will mean way more than options.

- Provenance (even if not famous or recognizable) will definitely have meaning and higher price (even if it is just records and original sticker).



I think the family heritage to the 944 and the 924 will always drag the price down -- if the 968 were independent of these siblings the price would be much higher. But I also think that Porsche cars took a turn around 1998 or 1999. The cars that came after this time seem commercial and drifted from the core concept of Porsche. Being one of the last models (like the 993) before this timeframe should be a big plus for the 968 over time.



Roland

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[bombfactory]

Every time I think the depreciation curve has bottomed out, I see a car in nicer shape than mine, with fewer miles, for sale for less than what I paid. Sigh...

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[Rap]

Don't sigh Bomb! I look at the money I'm now spending to set up a semi- track car plus what I spent on the first one plus the garage and think WTF are you nuts. Then I think I'm having fun, new hobby and did I buy the car for its resale value? Nope. I've over improved my home, see a trend here, but I enjoy where I live. Enjoy your car while you can! Most of us bought these cars knowing the resale value was questionable.

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[bombfactory]

Rap - so true. I bought the car because I reeealy wanted one and love the looks (this one had the options I wanted: 6sp <acronym title='Limited Slip Differential'>LSD</acronym> coupe, non-black interior, and was local), not because I expect to get rich someday when I finally sell it. I figure if I break even on the buy vs. eventual selling price that'll be a success. I've just been at times a bit discouraged with the amount of time and money it's taken to get my car into any kind of decent driving shape. After two and a half years of ownership, only recently have I begun to see daylight and had any fun driving the car. The <acronym title='pre purchase inspection'>PPI</acronym> I had done didn't come close to preparing me for the repair path I've been on. I know - welcome to Porsche ownership!



Still love opening the garage every day and seeing it there - what a gorgeous car!

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[Rap]

Yep open that door and what a great looking car. Following the DS logic that two are better than one, I can't wait to see what two 968's on a lift look like when I open the garage door. Course I have to get past the ka Ching sound as the door opens!! It may be an expensive pure pleasure but it's legal.

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[Big Carl]

Has anyone watched "Whats My Car Worth" on Discovery HD, or Velocity as its now called? The main things they ask in determining a cars collectibility are, Is it rare? (968- yes) Special Options? (M030-220- yes) lineage/ historical significance ?(968 Turbo RS LeMans racing, introduction of variocam, Most powerful naturally aspirated 4 cyl engine ever built at the time- yes) and Originality?, so clean factory cars are better than modified or restored. I think a factory built m030 with the sticker in the boot and a window sticker to verify, will always outshine a homebuilt version, but I think both will be worth considerably more then what we paid for them 10 years from now.

There are many factors that seem to point to the fact the 968 will become somewhat collectible, and I cant understand why many owners don't want to entertain the notion.

Gooding& Co sold the red Turbo RS in April for $300,000+ if I remember correctly. At least the rarest of rare got some recognition. Hopefully that will apply to all 968's down the road.



I know I plan on keeping my factory M030 clean and well maintained for the long haul, because I don't want to be that guy watching auctions on tv 20 years from now saying "I never should have sold my..." And hey, if it doesn't come true, I will still have a nice car that's fun to drive, even if it isn't worth a nickle.

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[ds968]

It's no Dino and no Cobra, but it'll still be worth more than any Cayman will be ten years from now...IMO. We won't even mention Boxsters , they're already par with, or below 968 prices ( in comparable condition and mileage ) and with time their values will continue to plunge, while the 968 will steadily rise..just not skyrocket .

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

Here in Europe , an all original club sport is allready up in value .

Low milage CS are in the 20000 Euro + .range .



Not that many low mileage cars around here , they are getting harder to find .



Tiptronic are the lowest in price .

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