11-14-2006, 04:43 PM
<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> I'm sure you're all wondering if I've been into the happy juice...but I also hang out over on http://www.bobistheoilguy.com. It's a forum for oil gurus to discuss what's happening in the fluids world.
There is basically a tornado of information flurrying about over on that forum about this. I read all the threads and then posted some questions to clarify the facts. Here's the skinny: Mobil 1 used to be a pure synthetic oil, using Group IV and V oils as the base formula, then adding the additives needed. Now Mobil 1 is using Group III oils as a base. Group III oil is based on DINO oil, not synthetic.
Yes, it's true and my Mobil 1 religious boots are shaking also...
If you call or write Mobil 1 you will just get a wiggly answer if you specifically ask them. The oil community over on that forum is FURIOUS to say the least...and remember that fluid engineers that do this for a living hang out there. A couple of the folks even called friends that work at Mobil 1. So I give a LOT of value to the info from there.
Here's my post over there with their answer:
Newbie Layman here with some questions.
I've read this and the other threads on this issue and I'm shaking in my M1 15w-50 shoes here folks!
I'm a Porsche nut, my current one is a 93 968 - 3.0 ltr 4 cylinder engine and I live in south texas (can you say HOT!) and I drive my car hard in the heat. I've been using M1 15w-50 in my Porsche's over the years...now I have doubts...
1. Are there any true Gp IV synthetics out there? If so, names please.
2. I change my oil and filter every 5K - so does me worrying about 15w-50 having gpIII a moot point?
I'm also the local Porsche club President and so a lot of folks tap me for advice...
3. So what should a Porsche owner be using?
Their answers:
...sasilverbullet, if you want some of the finest ("thick") brews for racing and will shell out some $$, try M1 V-Twin 20W-50 motorcycle oil. Additive levels in M1 15W-50 EP are not as high as they used to be. Will it make a difference? I dunno but why risk it is my belief when you have an awesome engine like you do.
...Since there aren't a lot of low cost (and easily available) synthetic Xw50 options out there, I'd say to keep using it, but perhaps you should convince the Porsche guys to begin doing UOAs right away, so that they can compare the stuff they are running now, to any future formulations of it. Then if they notice a drastic change, they can look into other options. And if things stay relatively the same, then they can keep using the product with confidence.
...You don't need to abandon the M1 15W-50 from a performance standpoint based on Group III content. Performance is not the motivation of the recent M1 controversy. If you feel you've been deceived and gouged upon in reliance, that's an altogether different reason.
...Another old school synthetic to consider if you do change would be Redline. This is the top oil in my opinion for difficult thermal loads. The price gap between it and the most expensive OTCs has narrowed, making it a better value than it once was. If you're not tracking it, other oils like GC or even Delvac 1 come to mind, although the first may be too thin and the latter is likewise an EM product.
...and still probably the finest HDEO available looking at the available evidence.
...Doug Hillary, an ex and long time poster on here with very good industry credentials used it in his old 928 and has seen it used in multiple Porsche applications with success.
There is no reason to believe this formula has changed considering it is used at up to 100,000km/60,000 mile OCI's in over the road trucking.
I will be cross-posting this over on rennlist...
<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
There is basically a tornado of information flurrying about over on that forum about this. I read all the threads and then posted some questions to clarify the facts. Here's the skinny: Mobil 1 used to be a pure synthetic oil, using Group IV and V oils as the base formula, then adding the additives needed. Now Mobil 1 is using Group III oils as a base. Group III oil is based on DINO oil, not synthetic.
Yes, it's true and my Mobil 1 religious boots are shaking also...
If you call or write Mobil 1 you will just get a wiggly answer if you specifically ask them. The oil community over on that forum is FURIOUS to say the least...and remember that fluid engineers that do this for a living hang out there. A couple of the folks even called friends that work at Mobil 1. So I give a LOT of value to the info from there.
Here's my post over there with their answer:
Newbie Layman here with some questions.
I've read this and the other threads on this issue and I'm shaking in my M1 15w-50 shoes here folks!
I'm a Porsche nut, my current one is a 93 968 - 3.0 ltr 4 cylinder engine and I live in south texas (can you say HOT!) and I drive my car hard in the heat. I've been using M1 15w-50 in my Porsche's over the years...now I have doubts...
1. Are there any true Gp IV synthetics out there? If so, names please.
2. I change my oil and filter every 5K - so does me worrying about 15w-50 having gpIII a moot point?
I'm also the local Porsche club President and so a lot of folks tap me for advice...
3. So what should a Porsche owner be using?
Their answers:
...sasilverbullet, if you want some of the finest ("thick") brews for racing and will shell out some $$, try M1 V-Twin 20W-50 motorcycle oil. Additive levels in M1 15W-50 EP are not as high as they used to be. Will it make a difference? I dunno but why risk it is my belief when you have an awesome engine like you do.
...Since there aren't a lot of low cost (and easily available) synthetic Xw50 options out there, I'd say to keep using it, but perhaps you should convince the Porsche guys to begin doing UOAs right away, so that they can compare the stuff they are running now, to any future formulations of it. Then if they notice a drastic change, they can look into other options. And if things stay relatively the same, then they can keep using the product with confidence.
...You don't need to abandon the M1 15W-50 from a performance standpoint based on Group III content. Performance is not the motivation of the recent M1 controversy. If you feel you've been deceived and gouged upon in reliance, that's an altogether different reason.
...Another old school synthetic to consider if you do change would be Redline. This is the top oil in my opinion for difficult thermal loads. The price gap between it and the most expensive OTCs has narrowed, making it a better value than it once was. If you're not tracking it, other oils like GC or even Delvac 1 come to mind, although the first may be too thin and the latter is likewise an EM product.
...and still probably the finest HDEO available looking at the available evidence.
...Doug Hillary, an ex and long time poster on here with very good industry credentials used it in his old 928 and has seen it used in multiple Porsche applications with success.
There is no reason to believe this formula has changed considering it is used at up to 100,000km/60,000 mile OCI's in over the road trucking.
I will be cross-posting this over on rennlist...
<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
