[ether_joe]

sunny Oxnard, CA. . . damn



well I was on the 101 south onramp, shifting out of 1st gear at about 5000 rpm. Pressed in the clutch to grab second gear, clutch pedal went to the floor and stayed planted there, didn't return back up. I pulled the car out of first gear and I wasn't able to engage another gear - the shifter would move left to right but not into a gear.



I pulled over, turned the car off, and reached down to pull the clutch pedal off the floor with my hand. I turned the car back on, pressed the clutch and shifted to reverse, came off the clutch - it returned back up this time - but when the it was time for the gear to engage, I got a grinding noise. Like when you try to shift without using the clutch. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



So. . . I'm stuck. I got the car towed by my insurance to a local independent Euro shop, and I've got a Rennlist 951 guy who might be giving me a hand Sunday.



If anybody is around though, give me a ring (limited internet access). Here's my # - 415-596-1361.



It would be nice to hear a friendly voice if nothing else. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/unsure.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> thanks guys

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[SILVY968]

Sorry to hear about your problem. Maybe it will be a hydraulic problem and not the clutch hardware. If you loose hyraulic the trany will act the way you described.

You could have someone operate the clutch while you check under the car thru the inspection port for movement. Also check the spring system behind the clutch pedal in the car, maybe something screwed up in there.

If it is the clutch cylinder, you have had some bad luck, but it could have been much worse.

Great day to be broken...Sunday and Father's day.

Good Luck, i think that we all have been there at one time or another.

Hope you get back on the road soon.

Brian

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[Dave]

Brian's right. Having had both the clutch hydraulics (line burst = brake fluid leaking under the car) and the clutch just disintegrate (separate instance, just made a horrible sound and vibrated like CRAZY); you've likely got:



A) Hydraulic issue (not too bad)

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Clutch issue (medium bad)

C) Other unknown (???? bad)



No parts flying off the car or sounding like they're rattle around, likely the first.

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[S_Cal968]

Sean,

There's a shop in Oxnard called Auto Dienst and they specialize in Porsche. Their number is 805 984-9907.

The next best would be Schnieder AutoHaus up in Santa Barbara - his number is 805 962-8015.



I do most all of my own work so I've never used the shop in Onxnard, but anyone in the area that has a P-car goes to this shop.

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[ether_joe]

wow these guys just quoted me $1400 for the clutch plus unknown hydraulic issues. Dammmnnn. . . <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> I was expecting about $1000 total for the clutch, this is what seems to be the going rate. . .



Question, if the clutch is gone, I shouldn't even be able to put the car into gear, right?



oh well. Part of me feels like just getting the car brought back to SF and I can do all the work there. Oh, well.

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[bob blackwell]

Sorry for your misfortune. When my clutch slave cylinder went out it acted the same way, also the hydraulic line from the master cylinder to the clutch slave cylinder would act the same way. Be sure and check these out before paying for a new clutch (as well as some "unknown hydraulic problems") It so very likely that the "unknown hydraulic problems are all that is really wrong. If it is either the slave cylinder or the hydraulic line there should be evidence of leaking (mine leaked into the floor board beneath the clutch pedal) the fluid level in the master cylinder should also be visibly lower that the min - max lines on the reservoir above the master cylinder. good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[Aahz]

That sounds exactly like the symptoms when my hydraulics popped.



I don't have the breakdown on-hand, but the shop charged me $500 for installing the master and slave cylinders, replacing the high pressure hose between the two, replacing the alternator and p.s. belts, retensioning the timing and b.s. belts, plus some other small stuff.



The guy I bought the car from sent new slave and master cylinders to me. I think the pair of those run just below $200.

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[flash]

1400 is a bit high - for that, they had beter be replacing the pilot, rear main seal, release bearing, disk and pressure plate



make sure they aren't quoting you 944 clutch labor - the difference is 12 hours versus the mere 4 or so it takes on our car

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[Dobie]

If it isn't a simple hydraulic issue, and you really need a new clutch, you can get the kit from Paragon with the accessory parts for less than seven hundred total, second day air. The flywheel, which you probably don't need, is $615.

Labor, even here in the land of the great rip off, is less than $100 an hour.

Hope that helps a little.

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[earossi]

The previous posters have been very "gentlemanly about this who thing. I'll be blunt........GET your car out of that shop! And get it to someone with a reputation for honesty. What is amazing is that they have quoted a new clutch. Other than looking through the inspection port, how in the world could they diagnose a bad clutch......the car isn't even derivable.



Given the age of our cars..........we are starting to see a rash of hose and hydraulic failures to the cars. From your description of the symptoms, I would bet that the clutch is fine (assuming you had no prior problems with vibration or slippage....which you did not mention). Furthermore, your issues sound exactly like the hydraulics.......either the master, slave, or connecting hose between the two. Given labor rates today and parts costs, I think that the $500 mentioned above is certainly in the ball park. Regardless of what item leaked, I would recommend replacing both slave and master cylinders and the hose. Then you know that you'll be good for another 10+ years. Since they have got to drain the fluid anyway and then bleed the system, it makes sense to replace all the leak path parts at the same time.



Again, get your car out of there. They either don't know anything about Porsches, or they are trying to exploit the situation. Either way, you don't want the work done by them. Have the car trailered back to San Francisco, or rent a flat bed and go and get it yourself. Or, take the advice above and have the car towed to a shop with a good reputation. Santa Barbara is not that far. And, your insurance should pay for that item.



Lastly, when the shop finds out that you are pulling the car from them, I'll bet that they will hit you with a bill for a couple hours of "diagnostic" labor and storage. Makes me cry.



Good luck.



Ernie

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[earossi]

As a follow up to my note above, I just took a look at the Pelican site for the parts you would need. Their pricing was $75 each for the master and slave cylinders, $30 for the connecting hydaulic hose, and $4 for the paper gasket that goes between the master cylinder and the firewall. Total that all up and you have about $185 for everything......and with Pelican there is free shipping. If you want to take a slightly less expensive route, there is available a rebuild kit for the slave cylinder that would save you about $50 off the above pricing. Rebuilding the slave cylinder is definitely an easy DIY task.......so, you'd be looking at about about $135 tied up in parts. The only thing that is tricky (though I have not been there yet) is bleeding the system. But, there is a lot of discussion about "how to" bleed the system in the archives.



Good luck.



Ernie

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[flash]

at the extreme risk of cming off as pedantic, that is quite possibly a bit harsh and premature



keep in mind that this car was dropped off while they were closed, over the weekend, and it is highly likely that any conversation had was prior to any real inspection



he said that they quoted 1400 to replace the clutch - he did not say that this was the diagnosis - he in fact said that there was no diagnosis relative to hydraulics yet - they probably just rattled off a number of something they knew, if that is what it turned out to be



on the other hand, perhaps they are not up to the job - i directed him to ask some specific questions designed to divine their abilities and intentions



the shop came with a recommendation - i think it is hasty to make a snap judgement based upon the few words he typed here, which were only a part of the story - unfortunately this is an all too common occurrence on these chat boards - somebody reads a sentence, adds to it some personal experience of their own for spice, and ends up at a wrong conclusion



how about we get some more info before jumping to any bashing of what might be a fine shop?

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[SILVY968]

When my clutch went out it took my pm 4.5 hours.

new clutch plate, pressure plate, crank seal, pilot bearing and release bearing.

Cost $ 1,240.00

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[sbdrivingdotcom]

Schneider Autohaus is THE Porsche shop in Santa Barbara. Not only do Henry and Joe -- the two mechanics there -- know exactly what they are talking about but they are also honest and are local PCA members. I recommended the shop to Sean and stand by that recommendation 100%. $100 an hour for labor is the going rate these days and I'm sure Henry and Joe know that this clutch job is not the same as a 944, especially considering Henry owned a 968 himself. Ernie, before you bash a reputable shop you should do your research.

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[S_Cal968]

What I'm curious about is how the car ended up in Santa Barbara - I thought it broke down in Oxnard which is 45 mins south[??]. Auto Dienst in Oxnard doesn't charge as much.



I'm a past customer of Schneider Autohaus; they know they're one of the few Porsche shops on the central coast, so yes, they ARE expensive. Also I wasn't real happy with their service - it took them over 6 weeks to rebuild my transaxle and charged top dollar. I suppose since I brought the t/axle to them out of the car it was given a low priority[!?]. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[TheMirror]

[quote name='S_Cal968' date='Jun 19 2006, 10:10 PM']I suppose since I brought the t/axle to them out of the car it was given a low priority[!?]. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

[right][post="23043"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



That or the new guy eventually managed to rebuild it.....











Sorry, couldn't resist.





-Mirror

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[flash]

sean was in a panic, and needed to get it somewhere - he took it to where he was recommended to go



sbdriving - thanks - i figured somebody who knew the shop would pop in with the real deal



this is kind of scarey - had somene not spoken up, that shop could easily have been bashed and we could have lost a good resource



without getting into netiquette and such, perhaps we can get a resource thread going with shops and specific experiences and recommendations - not just a list, but real testimonials about the experiences with them - then it could be sorted by zip code or something, so anybody could search the list for themselves



what do you all think?

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[josephsc]

You mean something like this Mechanics Recommendation section, except it's actually populated with information? That would be great!

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[flash]

yeah - i think a revamp of that section, limiting it to testimonials, and deleting queries and other extraneous posts, would be a great resource - really, just a database kind of thing

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[ether_joe]

car is on the lift and Henry is taking a look at it. I'll keep you updated. thanks to everybody for the technical help esp Joe and Flash - I feel much better armed with information now.



Question - what sort of hydraulic failures can happen without losing fluid? Didn't see any fluid under the car.

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