[flash]

i guess i had different expectations when i got the 968. i thought of porsche as a higher end car, and the owners as more affluent. i realize that nowadays these things are dirt cheap, but back when i got mine, it was a bit different. i never thought of the car as the entry level car. most of the porsche owners i know, including older cars, have spent a bunch of money on their cars. but then, i don't hang out with the raggedy 944 crowd either. the porsche guys i know are racers or big time concours guys. they easily have nearly $100k or more into their car. that was the expectation for me. it doesn't mean anything, other than i had different expectations when it came to those who owned them and what they would be interested in doing.



no worries. like i said, it's not like i am looking to make a bunch more of these. i'm good. it was just something that puzzled me.

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[tamathumper]

Let them eat cake...?

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[flash]

lol - pretty much. everybody knows i'm an elitist snob.



i wanted a car that led to events with the finer things. i didn't want the chips and beer crowd. i had enough of that with the older british sports cars. i was more looking for the country club crowd. i was looking for a group that was similarly able to do certain things, and not worry about the money. it doesn't mean that i haven't enjoyed this group. it was just where my head was when i was shopping for the car.



i think my mistake was in assuming that 968 owners were in the same position as race car owners and newer porsche owners. i let the name define my expectations, and not the car.



no worries.

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[ds968]

Far be it that I would stereotype anyone <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> , but I think the majority of newer Porsche owners are clueless, certainly not drivers by any stretch of the imagination, simply have plenty of money to spare and just want that " PORSH " <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> If you're looking for the country club crowd buy an Aston Martin , and hang out with them. Money ( new money anyway ) is not synonimous with class, willing to bet half of the Ferrari owners are just one step above the Vette crowd, gold chains and all.. Don't even mention Lamborghinis. From one elitist snob to another, cheers <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

lol - you know we've been thinking about a DB9 for a while now.



but, we're really been thinking about an older classic ferrari too. something from the 60s. something that would put us in the pebble beach crowd. space is the real issue here though, and is what is preventing me from taking on such a thing. where the heck would i put it? i'm not an "either/or" kind of guy though, and i tend to keep my cars, rather than trade up. until i moved to l.a. i had a full on collection of a dozen classic cars, half a dozen motorcycles, a tow van, a trailer, and a sandrail. lol - so, until we move, we'll continue to "slum it".



it doesn't really matter. i likely merely had an unrealistic view of the abilities of the group to develop their toys. maybe it's a west coast thing too. like i said, for nearly 30 years now, the car enthusiasts i have been around have plenty of money, and don't blink at a new engine every year, or whatever. that's what i imagined would certainly be the case with porsche owners.



the other thing that might be different is that i feel strongly that if you can't afford to lose something, you should not have it in the first place. perhaps some don't think about that when they get into one of these cars, and instead only look at the buy in number, and find it on par with a camry, and apply that thinking to it.



i don't know. all i know is i expected a bigger response. even at the beginning i had what i thought were modest expectations, as i said it would likely only be 50 units in the first 2 years, and no more than 50 more ever, no matter how long it ran. it turns out i overestimated that by more than 100%



interesting stuff to be sure.

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[Langley968]

The wife and I give twice as much as the cost of a SC to charities each year. I think there are many others that also have "other" priorities.

Trust me, I enjoy reading and hearing about the 968's with a SC. Just does not fit into my "priorities", and for that I do not apologize. It is hard to find contentment these days...

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[craigawoodman]

You also have to remember that most people (unless in their 40's or older), see cars as either a form if transport or an ego statement.



The great socialist manifesto, would like everyone to believe that automobiles are satan incarnate, a selfish indulgence, and an opportunity to be down sized, rationalized, etc.



If you want to have fun in a car, enjoy driving and cars, etc - you are not modern, you are prehistoric and should be stoned. Cars are only for transport. Forget that most cities require a car to live.



Lots of new Porsche owners, simply want the badge. They have too much money, decide to buy a new toy, and the local Porsche dealer makes it worth their while.



Most have now idea of car maintenance or cleaning or servicing, etc. want to go faster, throw money at it.



Not too sure that this is who you want to hang out with Flash. In a three way conversation between their ego, their alternate ego, you will very rarely get a word in sideways, unless it agrees with their view. Real people are much nicer to be around.

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[mbardeen]

I can't speak for the majority of owners, but when I bought my car, I knew it wasn't going to be the fastest car on the block or even the best handling car on the block.. It's a reasonable performer for what I wanted, and what I wanted was more the driving experience than pure speed.



I look at it the same way I would buying any "classic" car. The point of these cars is not the performance -- as technology develops they're going to be left further and further behind. You're never going to get 991 Turbo performance out of a 356, yet people still drive them and enjoy them as they came from the factory.

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[Peter B]

Back to the original post, I hope you don't stop now with D1R superchargers. I just picked up a 968 and I'm impressed. I need to join the PCA and take the DE classes so I can safely unharness more of this car's capabilities. I've seen and felt what this car can do in the right hands.



For those who race, you do hear about people moving on to faster and more powerful racing cars. There is the pull of all the 300 HP newer cars. This D1R systems sounds like a good way to add legs to the 968. I just got a stock engine 968. I'm a ways from doing anything like this, but i'm already interested.



In business, one way to manage the capital outlay is to run a batch of the specialty parts, then buy the off-the-self stuff order by order or in smaller groups. I would imagine that most of parts are pretty specialized.



Anyway, I hope you're not done with this. Another choice is to hand off the making of these kits to someone else with your designs (for royalties??).



Since you've sold so many of these, this may be a good new topic group. I'd like to hear more about how they're working and how the cars are holding up on the track and after 10 - 20 - 30K miles.

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[94SilverCab]

[quote name='mbardeen' timestamp='1372134127' post='144874']

I can't speak for the majority of owners, but when I bought my car, I knew it wasn't going to be the fastest car on the block or even the best handling car on the block.. It's a reasonable performer for what I wanted, and what I wanted was more the driving experience than pure speed.



I look at it the same way I would buying any "classic" car. The point of these cars is not the performance -- as technology develops they're going to be left further and further behind. You're never going to get 991 Turbo performance out of a 356, yet people still drive them and enjoy them as they came from the factory.

[/quote]



+1,000

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[flash]

i understand that the car may never be the fastest thing on the road. i also understand collecting cars, and not messing with them from stock. been there done that. this presumes that the car has an intrinsic value though. the 968 is worthless as a collectible, and likely always will be. collectibles have to have the root of a following or some connection to pop culture, or something that would spark nostalgia. if the 968 ever does become a collectible, it would require cars being mothballed for that, and not too many are willing to do it.



in stock trim, if i knew up front that i were limited to what it had, i would never buy one of these. i almost didn't, merely because it was a porsche. if it was further limited to what porsche put into it, i would have passed on it just as i did when it was new, and for the same reasons. it is big, heavy, slow, and ill-appointed. but, i looked at it as a platform and said "now there is a car i can tear apart and build up right".



ironically i feel differently about the tip. the white car is pretty much fine as it is, but it also is not my toy. that one would be a commuter if i were to be driving it more. i would never put it in a situation where i would have to try to get any performance out of it. i would only be disappointed.



so, the only thing left is to make the 6 speed into a great driver's car. to do that, you have to depart from stock, unless you always want to feel left behind and wish you were driving something else.



the unfortunate reality is that no matter what car you are talking about, most things that improve the performance also degrade the rest of the car. very few things can leave that intact. for example, i went too far with my suspension, and previously with the engine bolt on mods, and peeled things back to regain the qualities that brought me to the car in the first place. abusive suspensions, or noisy engines, are not what this car is all about. it's a GT, and as such touring is the appropriate focus. anything else is little more than folly, unless you just like losing, or are willing to race only against other slow cars.



enough flogging of the 968, or how piss poor i happen to think it is in stock trim. back to the topic at hand.



the supercharger does a much better job of providing performance without compromising the traits of the car, than all of the other bolt on mods. it also doesn't mess with emissions. that's why i thought it would do well. it's not about speed either. it's about increasing flexibility. most of the time i am not even really going all that fast. it's the little things, like being able to just step on the gas and pass a car on the freeway, rather than have to downshift.



anyway, i'm not judging or anything. i was just a bit surprised that more people were not interested in something that was a fairly transparent and simple bolt on that would put their car on par with today's cars in terms of power, especially given that the most popular threads on any of the sites is about big power or forced induction. i overestimated how many others thought like i did about the car. they obviously have lower standards or expectations of the 968. that's cool. after all, that's not uncommon, and why they made the camry, right?



no worries. it's fine, and i rather like being a part of a more exclusive club anyway.



but all of this is interesting for sure.

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[Rap]

Are you sure your overestimated interest or underestimated interest due to pricing. I'm not knocking the pricing. Everyone decides what they want and how much they want to spend. I'm delighted with mine and feel I got a well engineered product. Although I doubt you could produce this product at a lower cost with the same quality without much larger sales volumes, certainly the marketplace is not large enough for volume to impact price that significantly. That said, those of us who are fortunate to have been able to make the decision to purchase an sc certainly are in an exclusive club. Just ask kh968!

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[flash]

to me they are inextricably tied. in this group i think the price determines the interest level. for 9 years i have watched the forced induction threads on every site, and they are always the most active. that's why i thought things might be a little different



that being said, it does not help that another vendor came out with a kit that didn't work, and mine cannot be talked about on other sites. unless and until members of those sites talk about it on those sites, it is likely a fair sized group will at least be slow to learn about it.



again - no worries. just odd.

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[Dubai944]

I think you did well to sell as many kits as you did.



There was more interest in supercharging earlier on, if you go back and read threads on different forums from early 2000s on. Unfortunately the few other supercharger kits that were put out originally were poorly done and people had problems with them leading to a general distrust of supercharging. These days the idea tends to get dismissed out of hand and those interested in big power are focused on turbos or V8 s.



The fact that, done properly, it's a better solution for a road car than a turbo is missed, because there hasn't been enough positive experience with a kit that worked properly like yours evidently does. I suspect that if you had been selling your kit a few years earlier on when the idea was still new, you might have changed perceptions and more people might have gone that route.

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[flash]

yeah - that's the part i was alluding to in the last post. i think you are very right.

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[Chris Vais]

I wonder how much the down economy impacted your numbers? Speaking for myself, were it not for a job loss and extended period of unemployment, I definitely would have installed a supercharger. Instead I'll be rebuilding a drained retirement account. I'm guessing there are more than a few of us in the same boat.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Chris Vais' timestamp='1372289641' post='144959']

I wonder how much the down economy impacted your numbers? Speaking for myself, were it not for a job loss and extended period of unemployment, I definitely would have installed a supercharger. Instead I'll be rebuilding a drained retirement account. I'm guessing there are more than a few of us in the same boat.

[/quote]

Yes, I really think the main driving force behind the arguably lower-than-expected sales of superchargers is financial. With a few rare exceptions, I'm convinced the purchase of what's essentially a toy like a 968 was for most of us a) A financial stretch to begin with, and B ) Considered, maybe only in the deep recesses of our consciences, to be pretty frivolous. So, the thought of sinking another ~$6K (I'm including of the repairs needed to most 968 to make them ready to safely accept the SC) into something to make our already-budget-stretching frivolous toy a little faster was just beyond the reach of most 968 owners.

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[flash]

i get that. i think where it fell down for me was my incorrect assumption as to the affluence of the 968 owner. i knew going in that this car was going to cost me $75k before i was done (i didn't think it would end up more than twice that though). i presumed that everybody else thought the same way. my thinking was "it's a porsche. it's going to be expensive." i never considered that budget was such an issue. i knew that the curve would have those who can afford anything, and those that could afford nothing, but i figured the center was better off. i guess this really is the latest "poor man's porsche".



i'm still keeping mine.

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[ds968]

Considering the 968's "market value" I think a lot of people ( I would say a large majority ) struggle with the thought of sinking $ 5k into a car that typically sells between $ 8k to $ 13k , no matter how much performance / fun factor the SC might add to it. It's different when you spend $ 5k, or 10k , or whatnot on repairs because it's a necessity and you simply don't want to scrap a car you love, bit the SC is a luxury and that's an entirely different mindset. For those of us who could not care less about market value, and have the funds to do it it seems like a no-brainer , but even thenjust as Jake pointed out, it may very well be different priorities that drive the decision to go for an SC or spend that money on something that one feels offers a greater value to them.

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[Dubai944]

The fact that the cars are becoming so cheap definitely has attracted a more budget group of owners in recent years. It's probably ten years too late to be able to really do well with any aftermarket add on products, especially in the US.



Insanely, A 944 S2 sold new in Australia for $110,000 in 1990, they still grab between 15 and 20K used in the market here today. 968s still sell between 25 &40K here, so in some ways the Australian buyer of 944s/968s today is probably more like the typical US buyer 10 to 15 years ago who was the type of person happy to spend 5K or more on engine mods. Trouble is the market here is tiny so you won't make money selling to Australians (unless it's Craig, then you can keep selling him several different kits <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> )



Seems to me the only people still willing to spend a lot of money on these cars are mostly racers or track oriented drivers who bought the cars only as a starting point. I paid about 5K for my 944, but probably (too scared to calculate exactly) have 100K or more in the car now. Even that group is dwindling now as the car is just getting too old and much more modern race oriented platforms are getting cheaper and cheaper.



I think the car has had it's day, and people that own them going forward are much less likely to be spending money on modifying them.

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