[Cloud9...68]

Starting with, do the actually exist?:



http://www.allfactorywheels.com/products...7Aod9QUARA



I've always liked the looks of these wheels, but thought they only came in 18", but according to this site, and another one I found, they're available in 17" as well. But they're not shown at Wheel Enhancement, or on the table that lists the specs of all Porsche wheels, so I wonder if this is a mistake, or if they do exist, are they poor quality replicas? At $695 a pop, they'd be pretty pricey for replicas.



If anybody here knows anything about them, I'd be curious as to things like their weight in 17 x 9", available offsets, how they're made, are they suitable for the track, etc. Thanks.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

these guys have them too, and for less:



http://www.originalwheels.com/porsche-wh...02rims.php



these guys are even less:



http://www.hubcaphaven.com/mm5/merchant...._Code=3676

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Cool, thanks. Any idea as to a source that would know anything about these wheels to answer the questions in my opening post? They have a lot of metal around the hub area, so I suspect they aren't particularly light, but if they're no heavier than my current 18" Enkei NT03's, this would imply that their peripheral weight is significantly less than what I have now. Surprisingly, the selection of 17" tires that are 25" o.d. or less is actually as good if not better than in 18", and for a lot less money.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[JWahlsten]

Check on the manufacturing processes for those wheels. If they are repliwheels, most are hot cast, and they crack. I have a couple of cracked wheels in my garage from a fellow lister proving said point, and I had a cracked set a number of years ago.



I will never get cast wheels for the track again. Forged (expensive) or factory (heavy) or nothing for me...

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='JWahlsten' timestamp='1403987125' post='159242']

Check on the manufacturing processes for those wheels. If they are repliwheels, most are hot cast, and they crack. I have a couple of cracked wheels in my garage from a fellow lister proving said point, and I had a cracked set a number of years ago.



I will never get cast wheels for the track again. Forged (expensive) or factory (heavy) or nothing for me...

[/quote]

Yes, that's definitely one of my concerns. There's no free lunch with wheels - no such thing as track-worthy strong, light, and cheap. I might be willing to splurge for a set of forged wheels, but there's very little, in anything, available in 17 x 9" with Porsche's 5 x 130 mm bolt pattern. One exception is the gorgeous Forgeline GA3R, but my one gripe with these is that they're 3-piece (and that they're $1290 per). If I'm going to pay that kind of money, I want the lightest design possible, and the hardware holding the pieces together is going to add at least 2-3 pounds, according to a recent article in Grassroots Motorsports.



My other small concern is that several racing sanctioning bodies limit wheel widths to no more than 1" wider than what came stock, making a 17 x 9" square set-up illegal. I have some serious heartburn over spending that kind of money, and being limited to only non-competitive track days, especially since my primary motivator for considering such a set-up is to save money on tires, which would allow me to spend more on seat time, which is what I really need the most. That's what makes the wheels I'm inquiring about appealing - even if they're not the lightest or strongest things on the planet, they're cheap (at the sources Flash found), so even if I crack a few along the way, I'd still probably be money ahead in the long run. Decisions, decisions.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[JWahlsten]

Just paint the backs white, and check them at least once per day, and you can get away with it. Alternately, you could run factory 17x9s until you're ready to go racing.



PCA is the only sanctioning body I know of limiting you to 8.5 and 10 inch widths. Are there others? After another good friend of mine got a stupid 13/13 this last weekend for some other ahole's driving, I wouldn't be too apt to drive with them regardless.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

I thought NASA has the same wheel width rule, but I could be mistaken.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[JWahlsten]

Hmm, I'd have to check on what race group. Figure out what class you want to run in and check. I know some of the classes are power to weight, and not much else...

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

You're probably right - it may just be PCA. There are definitely a lot of advantages to a square 17 x 9" set-up. My one hang-up is that I don't like the idea of going with a 17" wheel that weighs more than the 18" wheels I have now, which are 19.2 lb in front, and 21 lb in back. I know, I know, it's the weight at the periphery that counts, 17" tires are lighter than 18" tires, yada yada yada, but still, if I make the switch, I'd like the 17" to at least weigh no more than the 18".

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[JWahlsten]

Cloud,



Have you looked at CCWs? I know they make 17s and do whatever you need as far as offset. They are light too, and I know a lot of club racers are using them.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Joel,



Yes, I've looked at CCW - they don't have much of anything in 17".



After kicking this wheel and tire thing round and round, here's where I'm at: I have three primary criteria for my replacement tires when my current Hankook R-S3's wear out, which should be within a month or two at the rate I plan to track the car:



1. I want the outside tire diameter to be at or below that of the stock tires, which is a nice round 25". I screwed up with my current rears, which are 285/35-18's, and are 25.9" od. This is raising (numerically lowering) my final drive ratio, which is costing me rpms coming our of the turns



2. I want I want to stay within the Extreme Performance Summer tire category, as this is a reasonable compromise of still being streetable, having reasonable tread life, and giving the kind of performance on the track that my car's set-up should benefit from.



3. Since my No. 1 overall priority is to get as much seat time during this steep part of the learning curve as possible, the prices of the tires needs to be reasonable. The more I spend on tires, the less I have to spend on track time. Very simple math.



If I stay with my current 18" Enkei NT03's, I need to go with a 285/30-18 in back to come in under 25" od. However, the cheapest tire in that size in the extreme summer tire category is $306. Grinding away tires that expensive at the track while I'm in the learning phase is a no go. This is pushing me to very seriously consider selling my Enkei's, and getting something in a 17 x 9" square set-up, as there is a decent selection of high end tires that come in at or under 25" o.d., for A LOT less money than anything I can find in 18". This includes the BFG G-Force Rival that everybody is raving about, and the Nitto NT01, both for well under $200/tire. And of course, I'll be able to rotate them front to back, further extending their life.



Among Porsche-issued wheels in this size, I like the one that's the subject of this thread best, at least aesthetically. There isn't much difference in weight among any of them, so I might as well look into the one I think looks the best. Yes, there are a few aftermarket custom wheels available in that size, but they're astronomically expensive - a sizeable fraction of the value of a typical 968. While a set of Forgeline GA3R's would be fabulous, that's just too much money to invest in one item.



I've noticed a huge discrepancy in prices for these wheels - from the low $100's to $695 per wheel. I assume the cheap ones are replicas, made with a low-end casting process, without any strengthening procedures applied after the casting. Do Porsche original wheels use a significantly superior manufacturing process? Basically, I'm asking those who have gone through the wheel-buying experience to tell me what I should be looking for to maximize my chances of getting a wheel that will stand up to track use for a reasonable price. Thanks.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[blau]

Cloud, on the other hand - it may be a sizeable investment up front but you should be able to recoup at least 50% of your wheel cost from a reputable 3-piece wheel if you don't damage them during your ownership. If you do damage them, replacing a $250 outer lip can be cheaper than replacing a $700 one-piece forged wheel. A set of the very lightweight Fikse Profil 10's in 17" should run ~$3300 new, while they sell on the used market for ~$1700-1900.



Also to note - PCA's autocross rules are changing next year (sounds like ALL wheels wider than stock or cars on race tires are moving to IMPROVED - doesn't make sense) so I would check into what PCA says about that - although if it's just DE - it shouldn't make a difference for you.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

fikse was one of the brands i avoided, because they had a rep for breaking on the track.



you could just avoid pca, and not have to deal with any of those nuts. there are a lot better groups out there, and more competitive stuff.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Good inputs - thanks.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[JWahlsten]

I know a lot of guys run the Fikses without issue, but I have heard of a number of failures. They have new ownership within the last couple of years, and I understand their processes are better. No personal datapoints, so take that with a grain of salt.



Porsche never made the wheel style you are looking at in 17 making all the wheels you like repliwheels. Not my cup of tea for the track. If you can find a set that is hot forged, then I would go with it. The cast wheels just don't stand up to the abuse.



I have the original 968 17x9s and plan on running those. They also made 17x7, 7.5, 8, 9, and 9.5. They also made some in magnesium, but they are uber rare and expensive. The others are out there if you look. Strong, but not very light. It's what I would use unless I was willing to foot the bill for some forged custom wheels. I had a set of 17x8 and 9.5 and have regretted selling them a number of times.



I like your thoughts. Get the seat time, and have a square set up.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Joel,



Thanks - very good inputs. I've been suspicious that the wheels in question here were never available in 17" as an OEM Porsche wheel. Groan... Like you, I regret selling the wheels that came with my car, which were 996 10-spoke 17 x 7's in front, and 17 x 9 in back. I should have sold the two fronts, and bought two more 17 x 9's to replace them. They're not exactly light, but not too terrible (around 21 lbs), and it would have been a cheap way to go, both in terms of up-front cost, and running costs. The hassle about ending up with a square set-up is that you pretty much have to buy two complete sets of wheels, and sell the four extra fronts, which may not be easy. Or I could buy new, of course, but I cringe at paying the "Porsche tax" for a cast wheel that isn't particularly light.



Alternatively, a set of forged wheels would be great, but the cost is really crazy for a car that isn't worth diddly. At least the Fikse's are a lot cheaper than Forgelines, so that may be an avenue to consider.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

on the subject of the magnesium OEM rims, they are indeed expensive, assuming you can find them, but more importantly, they are not allowed in racing due to their age. magnesium rims shatter when they get old.



as for cast rims, i don't know why anybody is worried. the only time i have seen a cast rim break is when something else was involved. they can crack if the lugs aren't tight (which can happen easily if you are still trying to use aluminum lugs. other than that, you pretty much have to go horribly off track, or hit something, and in that event, you likely have other things to worry about. think about it. every one of our cars came with cast rims. how many of them have been broken? it takes a pretty big pot hole to even dent them.



that being said, the thing about the 9" 993Cup rims and availability is that the rear rim is the one that usually gets buggered from potholes. that's because there is a lot of rim on the inside, and the negative camber puts the entire load there. finding separate rear rims is hard. finding separate front ones is not too bad.



while you can repair 3 piece rims much more easily, and you can get exactly the offset you want, they tend to dent on the rim a lot more easily too. i've had to have a rear fixed twice on my HREs, and they are the strongest wheel out there.



for a DE car, especially one that has to be driven to the track, i think i would run something easily replaced, as light as my budget would allow, and not worry so much about anything else. it's not like there are any trophies or anything. if you get to the point where you are racing, then change out, but at that point you aren't driving the car to the track, and you can be a lot less concerned about denting them. you can sell the compromise ones you have, and buy rims for racing.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Flash hits it on the head with the sentiment that one needs to keep in mind the car's intended purpose. For a competition car, of course you want anything and everything that will make it faster, including the strongest, lightest wheels. But noncompetitive track days need to be treated as learning tools, so the top priority should be anything that maximizes seat time, which usually includes keeping running costs to a minimum. Ultimate speed, while it's nice, isn't the top priority. It took me a long time to come to terms with this; I've probably already made more modifications to my car than were necessary for what I'm planning to use it for in the foreseeable future. So, (with apologies to Rap), things like Hoosiers are something I just can't wrap my brain around with my newly acquired wisdom, lol..



With this in mind, something like 993 Cup (Cup 2)'s or turbo twists would make a lot of sense, but there's still the logistical challenge of acquiring four, particularly in the 9" wide rear size, which as Flash points out tend to get banged up more than the fronts. Probably my best bet is one of those online used wheel distributors.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[MCL968]

How would rear wheels, say in a 17" size, fit under the front given the width and offset? I like the idea of a square setup, but not if it creates more problems than it solves.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

the offset is 55 on the 9" wheels. as long as you don't go over 25" O.D., or over 255 in width, they should fit fine. i have a 57mm offset on a 9" rim on the front of my car, with a 255. fits great. obviously a fit check would be in order.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.