[Darth Vadar]

Having "splurged" on a set of Bilstein Coilovers (front and rear) for the 968, I am thinking that a pair of Monoball Adjustable Camber Plates might make some sense, instead of mounting up the new race hardware to the well used stock top Plates, yes?



I have looked at those offered by Paragon and other Suppliers, and see at least three different designs out there that all claim to be useable with our 968's... quite a price spread as well!



So, as Packard used to say (okay, none of you young bucks remember Packard!!!) "Ask the man who owns one!" Which brand of Camber Plate do you use and why do you like it? Or why not? B4 I shell out my $3 to $500 bucks, it would be nice to have some real world recommendations.



I noticed some Plates claim to work with both stock and race Springs, and others refer to just 2.5" Race Springs... what is the story on that?



Any and all advice appreciated!!!



Happy Holiday Season to all!

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[Jim Child]

I'm using these as are most of the 944S2/951/968 racers I know:



http://www.racersedge-inc.com/racersedge/r...menumodelbytype

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[Eric_K]

I use the ground control plates. No complaints and Ground Control has great service if you need the bearings replaced. The spring diameter you can use is dependent on the spring hat included with the plate thus the differences in spring specs. Ground control offers most popular sizes. I'd go with the 2.25 if you can.



http://www.ground-control-store.com/produc...hp/II=140/CA=95

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[wjk_glynn]

[quote name='Darth Vadar' post='29172' date='Dec 19 2006, 07:13 AM']...I have looked at those offered by Paragon and other Suppliers, and see at least three different designs out there that all claim to be useable with our 968's...[/quote]



Just an FYI... I know of 5x different designs compatable with the 968 as follows:



1: http://www.dynatechmotorsports.net/suspens...amber_plate.htm

2: http://www.kokeln.com/products/968_9295/ra...mberplate.shtml

3: http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/pp_944ccp.htm

4: http://www.racersedge-inc.com/racersedge/r...menumodelbytype

5: http://www.tarett.com/items/944-series-pro...camp-detail.htm



Just curious to know if your hunt identified any other models?



Karl.

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[Dave]

Second vote for the Racer's Edge plates. Karl makes a bunch of good stuff for our cars and all the sponsors here sell his stuff.

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[Darth Vadar]

Super information, as always, folks! I am leaning toward the Racers Edge Plates... The Coilovers are set up with Racers Edge Spring Perches, so s/b compatible with their Camber Plates, I would assume? (of course, never safe to assume anything in the car business!)



Karl, I have seen one other type of adjustable Camber Plate for the 944/951/968... I will try and recall where I saw it, and post a link.

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[Darth Vadar]

    [ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND][attachment=3265:attachm

ent]Karl, I have seen one other type of adjustable Camber Plate for the 944/951/968... I will try and recall where I saw it, and post a link.

[/quote]





Has anyone ever had any experience with this Camber Plate? Not sure who manufactured it...

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[flash]

out of curiosity, why adjustable camber plates? is it for the monoball, or for the adjustment?



i have considered these, but have opted not to add another hard mount at this time - i have already picked up quite a few new "sensations" as a result of the monoballs i have now - i rather like the idea of leaving some give in there on a street car, as mine is



however, after 9 alignments in 3 years in an attempt to get my geometry right, i can see the advantage of rough tuning with such a device - it would allow a lot easier tweaking on the fly - the whole "try this - now try that" thing would be made a lot simpler - you would probably be able to dial a car in in one day - i would still have to end up at the alignment shop to nail it, as i would not want to leave it in the innaccurate state of such in the field adjusting - i've watched how little it takes to make big changes in angles, and i just don't think i could get close enough without an alignment machine - but you could probably get pretty close

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[mike]

Tom Pultz' 944S2 website has some good info regarding the Racer's Edge camber plates and how different designs affect ride height. You can find out more here.



mike

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[RS Barn]

I stock and reccomend Racers Edge Adjustable Camber Plates. I also stock KLA's as a replacement for stock. The RE plates are the only ones that don't alter ride height and feature a teflon lined monoball bearing. They work great for street and track. I offer a 12% discount on these

Pete

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[whakiewes]

Ground Control here, 2.25" spring plates. Very high quality parts and excellent service. If you ask for Stan, he will give you a 'special' price on the plates, as well as springs you might like. In short, my GC plates without using any of my resale certificates were less than any other offerings shipped. I had previously owned a pair of Advance Designed struts (used in my BMW E36) and was not satisfied with the durability, but these camber plates are top notch. Fully rebuildable and the bushings are ~$6/each so if you ever change to different struts they are all compatible. I have bushings for my standard 14mm Koni's and my 2812 16mm Koni's.



Pete: I am unsure why ride height matters. I would bet my paycheck that anyone looking to purchase camber plates would also be on a ride height adjustable suspension. The fact that other manufactures raise the height by 1/2" or an 1" doesn't matter. It doesn't effect the shock stroke, effective rates of anything, or the look. I took this into consideration, but did not find good reasoning. I am 100% satisfied with all of Racers-Edge products, but I just couldn't find the $120 difference between my GC's and RE's. Maybe you can highlight/enlighten me and others to other advantages that I may have missed. Also at a 12% discount, that makes them much more reasonable just incase anyone was looking.



Bob - My camber plates seem to ride better than my monoballs. It may be a difference in the valving/strut type, but the adjustment up top makes it SO much nicer than having to raise the car up to make adjustments. Gives me the ability to have a track setup and a street setup pre-aligned. Something you may not value as much, but it really made a difference to me.



Wes

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[Darth Vadar]

[quote name='flash' post='29198' date='Dec 19 2006, 07:28 PM']out of curiosity, why adjustable camber plates? is it for the monoball, or for the adjustment?



i have considered these, but have opted not to add another hard mount at this time - i have already picked up quite a few new "sensations" as a result of the monoballs i have now - i rather like the idea of leaving some give in there on a street car, as mine is



however, after 9 alignments in 3 years in an attempt to get my geometry right, i can see the advantage of rough tuning with such a device - it would allow a lot easier tweaking on the fly - the whole "try this - now try that" thing would be made a lot simpler - you would probably be able to dial a car in in one day - i would still have to end up at the alignment shop to nail it, as i would not want to leave it in the innaccurate state of such in the field adjusting - i've watched how little it takes to make big changes in angles, and i just don't think i could get close enough without an alignment machine - but you could probably get pretty close[/quote]



Just seemed like a waste to install the Blistein Escort Cup Coil Overs w/o beefing up the stock factory top mounts, esp. since they are now 15 years old! (and have a fair number of miles on them as well) Plus, if I ever decide to auto-X the old girl, I might want to try different camber settings w/o crawling into the fender well to dink around with the eccentric bolts.... I totally agree that a four wheel alingment is in order once I get everything "fitted out"! Then I can mark the settings and go from there.



Pete, the offer sounds great! I need to confirm the spring sizes (2.25"?) and make sure the Spring Hats are included w/ the Kit, (they are supposed to be Racers Edge units) and then I can get the order in for the Camber Plates... probably be after the Holidays, what with family coming in to entertain, etc. I assume all mounting hardware comes with the Camber Plates?

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[wjk_glynn]

[quote name='Darth Vadar' post='29197' date='Dec 19 2006, 02:40 PM'][ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND][attachment=3265:attachm

ent]Karl, I have seen one other type of adjustable Camber Plate for the 944/951/968... I will try and recall where I saw it, and post a link....[/quote]



Thanks.



So with the Ground Control camber/caster plates (see following), that makes 7x different manufacturers...







Karl.

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[wjk_glynn]

There's also Weltmeister: http://www.weltmeister.com/ProductDetail...ductID=394







I think that makes 8x



Karl.

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[Darth Vadar]

Hmmm... lots of options!

The Weltmeister unit looks like the Racer's Edge unit, but with different anodizing??



I would guess they are all good for what I would ever need...

Just need to pick one that fits!

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[whakiewes]

Darth,



It would appear that there are two different styles of camber plates. They also differ in price. Pete or someone who has more experience with racers edge parts can chime in, but I could not find the difference. I also could not get a solid answer as to whether the RE units could be rebuilt locally or if I would have to ship them out, yadda yadda yadda. I like the Racers Edge, but there is a $200 difference between them and Paragon/GC units which appear to be very good to me. The main difference I can find is that Weltmeister/Kokeln/RE all accomodate stock springs and stock suspensions, but in my experience anyone dropping the dough isn't on a stock suspension. I put my $200 saved into Racers Edge bushings instead <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> !



Wes

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[RS Barn]

The racers edge maintains the original spring height dimension. if you look at picture the RE hat is taller by 1 1/4". There is also a quality difference in the bearing. The RE is a NHBB teflon lined spherical bearing that can support over 9000lb vertical and 58,000lb radial load. The load carring sections are .375" thick 7075 alloy. Muuch stronger than others.

Yes you do get what you pay for

Pete

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[flash]

wes - it's probably the sum of all of the changes i've made that limit what else i can do - my thought is that the tires and wheels i have up front make it difficult to go any farther and maintain streetability - if i were to add to that everything else, and it gets dicey - on the track, this would be a no brainer - of course, there is the idea that it is the remianing rubber that is actually the trouble, and that a solid mount would make it better - when my mounts give me any reason to think about them, i will probably change them to a solid one and find out



however, after doing as many alignments as i have, there is no way i could get the specs i want nailed down in 2 setups like that - a quarter of a degree is everything on this car, and would be on anything trying to achieve ultimate handling - i've seen road handling changes with just a tenth of a degree change in toe - there is no chance of making that change that accurately with those plates, even using those bubble type alignment tools, assuming you could find a spot level enough to use them (this is incredibly important) - the plates don't even have graduations for that minute of an ajustment - you need an alignment rack



yes, they would be helpful in the tuning process, and i could probably have saved myself half a dozen alignments - but, then you would still have to go and get an alignment to get it balanced out - then you would lock it and leave it - going back and forth is asking to throw your alignment out every time you do this, resulting in tire wear that would hurt both street and track driving



i see people saying this all the time - they use the rational that they could have a street and track setup practically at the flip of a switch - it just doesn't work that way - if anybody had done their own alignment on this car, they would see just how touchy it is, and how impossible it would be to use those sliding parts to achieve an accurate result, and especially a repeatable one



making a camber change on this car also affects castor and toe - those have as much to do with handling as camber - adjusting just one, and expecting to have the others fall in is hoping in one hand and wishing in the other



great device for tuning - great device for eliminating play from the rubber mount and making a much more accurate suspension - lousy device for repeatable accuracy without an alignment rack

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[Eric_K]

out of curiosity, why adjustable camber plates? is it for the monoball, or for the adjustment?

The adjustability allows you to dial in a lot more camber than the eccentrics allow. It also cuts down on the time needed to do an alignment - if you are paying by the hour.



The GC units allow more degrees of camber adjustment than the RE's. That is the design trade-off for not keeping the same spring height. They are also plenty strong enough. I'm sure the RE's are excellent but if you want to save a few bucks the GC work well too.

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[flash]

ok - yeah - i get that, looking at the 4 degrees on the plate - makes a lot of sense, and as i said, i sure get the ease of dialing in a car



hadn't really thought about the time on the rack, but that makes sense too, assuming it doesn't do the "arrgh...not enough...oops...too much" thing, while trying to get that last tenth of fine tuning

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