[Synchromesh]

Howdy, all. Few months back I purchased a '93 manual coupe with 157K miles and a blown head gasket. Towed it to my mechanic. Took them a while to take it apart and they discovered that block is cracked (pic below). <span> I'm reluctant to part out such a rare car especially considering that body is in good condition and is complete. So now I'm trying to figure out whether I should find another block or just sell it off as is. Looks like I just need the short block itself. I doubt I'd want to pay Porsche prices (if this is even feasible) so I'm curious where can one procure such a part and the cost. Or perhaps if I should just sell it off instead. Let me know what you think. Thanks in advance.</span>

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[paulzebo]

You will find 2 complete engines on ebay and one bare block which was already sleeved. $6500; $5200 and $1300 respectively. 

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[Synchromesh]

Thanks, I looked. Kind of pricey for the engine and I would rather not use a resleeved one. I think just an original short block would be helpful. Thanks.

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[tejon007]

Have you considered an LS motor? (Yeah, I know...heresy)

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[Synchromesh]

Have you considered an LS motor? (Yeah, I know...heresy)

Thanks, but nah!

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[94SilverCab]

I saw this on FB. Broadfoot is very reputable.

 

Regards,

 

Jay

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[MCL968]

I think a Macan V6 would be a great swap too.

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[dlearl476]

I think a Macan V6 would be a great swap too.

That would require a whole bunch of engineering skilz. Renegade has the all-aluminum LS swap down. IIRC from the last time I visited their site, it’s ~20lbs weight difference from the 3.0L 4. 

 

I still lament that Porsche didn’t see fit to use the 5 cylinder turbo from the RS2 Avant in the 968. I guess they didn’t want to complicate their R&D contract. (Then there’s the age old “the 911 is our fastest car” mentality in the boardroom)

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Off topic, but My mechanic is stuffing a 4 cylinder honda engine of some sort into a mini cooper. The kits are there, but fitting in components like alternators and things can be challenging. He sort of got 90% done and then shelved for a while. I hope he finishes it as I would like to ride it in. I think it's one of the original small coopers, not the bmw ones now...

 

Something in my car with the performance of a new LS would be interesting. I wouldn't mind having the power and something akin to a modern ac cobra..I might even be tempted to strip everything out one to lighten it up even more, but the front end would probably need some heavy duty help with the weight and handling. If i had that kind of coin to do something like that, I would just go buy an ac cobra...

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[tejon007]

Something in my car with the performance of a new LS would be interesting. I wouldn't mind having the power and something akin to a modern ac cobra..I might even be tempted to strip everything out one to lighten it up even more, but the front end would probably need some heavy duty help with the weight and handling. If i had that kind of coin to do something like that, I would just go buy an ac cobra...

Just in-case you're interested, an aluminum LS motor weighs less than a 951 motor (944 turbo).



https://renegadehybrids.com/944ls.html

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[Inkedupfatboy]

ah...that's cool. Not doing it, but that's cool.

 

Actually when my car gets the front end work done, I might go look to see if I can find someone to swap me a muscle car...

 

I just checked his website - interesting. However, I have problems giving money to people who can afford airplanes...Same with guns, I am not paying Bill Wilson over 3K for a 1911 so he can add another "Pony" to his stable..He might be a nice guy and I guess on one hand I don't begrudge, but don't brag..

Sorry, I am just weird in some ways..

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[dlearl476]

Something in my car with the performance of a new LS would be interesting. I wouldn't mind having the power and something akin to a modern ac cobra..I might even be tempted to strip everything out one to lighten it up even more, but the front end would probably need some heavy duty help with the weight and handling. If i had that kind of coin to do something like that, I would just go buy an ac cobra...

Back when Flash was developing his SC this stuff was debated ad nauseam. And back then, Renegade was using SBCs which were about 100# heavier than a 958 motor. One of the points that was made (besides messing with the weight balance and front suspension) was that the drive line, clutch, and transaxles weren’t designed for 350hp<. 

 

@tejon007 says an LS is lighter that a 944turbo. May be. Last thing I remember reading is that the block is lighter, but that fully dressed, an LS was ~25/30 lbs heavier. (But that might be on a 914, where all the ancillaries have to be replaced by electric/remote versions to fit the engine bay) 

 

That said, I imagine a 400-500hp LS would be quite a ride and quite dependable as long as you didn’t drive it like a Flat Billed, drifting, hoonigan. 

 

Alternatively, there’s this:

   

 

The 1.8T Conversion offers a wide tune-able range of horse power & torque with Base Packages developing over 250 lbs of torque at a very usable 2,200 RPM and staying relatively flat to almost 6,000 RPM with larger turbo packages generating well over 500 HP with max RPM to 8,500

COMPARISON BY THE NUMBERS

<p style="font-size:16px;font-family:calluna;text-align:center;">944 Engine weighs 373 lbs & produces 147 HP

<p style="font-size:16px;font-family:calluna;text-align:center;">944 Turbo Engine weighs 431 lbs & produces 217 HP

<p style="font-size:16px;font-family:calluna;text-align:center;">MWR Engine (stage 1) weighs 226 lbs & produces 275 to 285 HP

 
 
I’m guessing if you sourced your own motor you could do this for just about what a rebuild on a 968 motor would cost, if you had to pay someone else to do it. 

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[Inkedupfatboy]

When I bought my car the transaxle had the dreaded pinion bearing failure. The reason I went with a rebuild rater then swapping out the transaxle was (funny) to keep a numbers matching car in that sense, thinking it wouldn't harm the value.

I think just for conveneince and expedience sake I would go with the same engine if I was in this spot, but in all seriousness I am too old now and the thought of having to deal with this makes me not feel good. I suppose if you had to rebuild this starting here, you could always punch out a block and put some bigger pistony things in for some extra power. I would like a turbo..

I think Flashes super charger thing was cool, but given the market size, even if he was still producing them, they would be expensive. The other problem is they will fail at some point and I don't know if parts are off the rack or proprietary, so maybe there will be cars that have to have it removed at some point.

It's fun to see some people do things that are cool, but that's as far as my interest goes, I could never undertake a project of this size. Getting my car brought back from the dead after sitting five years in the previous owner's garage was a task enough for my patience and cash flow..

I think I would part the car out and buy one running if I really wanted one. I stumbled across mine by accident when my friend died, but I could have easily ended up with something else.

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[ds968]

I like the looks of the car so much, if the engine blew up, I’d be willing to put just about anything in there ( provided it had at least as much hp and ft/lbs as I have now with the stage 3 SC,  because I could not go back from that fun factor level anymore ..).   I would probably opt for an LS engine. And since I have not heard of any problems with the Renegade conversion, as it’s been proven to be successful for countless years now, I might not even consider other possibilities  ..

A turbo requires way too much care,  those with aftermarket turbos on their 944s ( and I’ve known quite a few ) complained that their cars were in the shop more often than on the road and in spite of the rush they got out of driving it, it quickly added up to a lot of $$$, in addition to the frustration.   Besides, I don’t like turbo lag, and I’m not sure if any small twin turbo engines could fit in there, but I guess that could be feasible for those inclined to do that .. I just don’t care for 6 cyl engines, they have a weird “vibe”…not sure how to describe it, but I’d rather drive a 4 than a 6 .  

When I had one of my 968s engines fully rebuilt it cost $ 10,000 and that was so long ago, I don’t even remember how many years it’s been ( pretty sure more than seven years ..) ,  I can’t even imagine what it would cost now ..  not worth it IMO .  

I used to think that bastardizing a Porsche with a GM engine is sacrilegious, but as I get older I care less and less about that .. besides, with NLA parts for our cars becoming a critical factor,  when I think about being able to buy anything and everything for an LS engine without a problem, and probably for many decades to come, the idea becomes very appealing . 

Just my $ .02 .   But hope that day never comes and my SC and engine last just as long as my driving days last .. 

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[tejon007]

Actually, we have a zero-mile/new an all aluminum LS crate motor just sitting in the garage. But, it's currently earmarked for another project. However, we have the prerogative to change plans, say if the 968's motor breaks. Would not put a Chevy 350 motor in it, but Renegade has stopped making those conversions a long time ago and anyway and now only uses the LS motors.



With GM's DOD (displacement on demand), you have a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder motor. But, probably wouldn't go that route. Maybe just a nice easy 400 HP or possibly 450HP (equivalent to a 911 Twin Turbo GTS), depending on which camshaft, intake and other modifications we make. Naturally aspirated of course.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

When I replaced the silverado this spring - (and don't get me started on that chevy nightmare) I wanted to go back to an import like my previous ridgeline that I had before the chevy POS - but they changed the ridgeline so that meant Tundra, but I couldn't get the v-8 anymore as they are all twin turbo v-6's - so I went with a 4Runner. Proven platform and they tow as well as a full size truck. I found a '22 with less than 5K on the odometer - and it's ok. Smaller inside than I like but it's doing it's job and I like driving it for the most part. My flatnose volvo that was supposed to be restored before I got the 968 has turbo/intercooler in it. I need to get back to that project. 

The silverado experience, make that nightmare, pretty much kills and LS anything for me. Regardless of opinion, I couldn't do it.

As much as I like this car, I would sell if the right money came along. I am not attached to it, but the wife like riding in it so that's the biggest reason for it's still being here, and the fact that I have so much tied up in it cash-wise on the rebuild.

A engine rebuild at 10K+ - nope it would be parts for sale....

 

I guess we got off topic here - sorry

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[tejon007]

We got a Cayenne S a couple years ago, sort of for the same reasons. It has a 7,700 pound towing capacity...

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