[Fox944]

Ben, the last model year Turbo in the U.S. was 1989.

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[Anchorman]

I'm sure someone will step up to this, but I'll take a shot...

I believe ROW is less elitist than you might think. It has to do with the unique regulations with which cars made for the US market have to comply, and which require "unique" (i.e., US-only, not ROW) elements. I think this are largely safety-related, but were (and still may be, I'm not sure) emissions-related.

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[333pg333]

Well swapping a different motor in and out isn't too challenging but all the ancillaries like intercooler and turbo plumbing will slow you down. Maybe follow Eric's suit and just do the conversion and be done with it. Personally, not having driven an n/a in anger on the track, but I can see the advantages of not going to forced induction although having watched enough Youtube clips and the like, I think I'd get tired of that 4 cylinder n/a drone and having to 'momentum' drive all the time. Sometimes just having the boost to PUSH you out of corners or down the straight just can't be beaten. N/A ownership would definitely be cheaper though.

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[benspeeder]

Fox 944 - think yer wrong on that, bud. Graph is not great but shows 144 turbos going to the US in 1990... works for the rules. ( I could be wrong - no expert)

333 - buying a 944 Turbo race car for STU would be cheaper than swapping motors in the 968 and complies with the rules....



944 Turbo (951)
A total of 25,245 944 Turbos were made, with 13,982 being exported to the United States.

Model Year Production Rest of World US Notes
1985 178 178
1986 10937 3424 7513
1987 4955 1546 + 88 CUP 3210 + 11 CUP
1988 4097 * 1875 + 94 CUP 1874 + 99 CUP in addition, 126 SP Can., 30 CUP Aus.
1989 4103 1333 1385 1385 Can
1990 1251 1107 144
1991 938 † 938
Totals 25245 9331 13982 30 Aus, 1511 Can

* - Includes 1635 Turbo S
† - Includes 251 Turbo Cabriolet. A different source, Jerry Sloniger's article in the October 1991 issue of Excellence, indicates that the factory built 525, of which 255 were exported to markets outside Germany.

I still think that the SCCA and its long history of disadvantaging the Porsche in all classes will find a reason to disallow the 944 turbo in STU....

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[Fox944]

The last model year 944 Turbo in the U.S. is 1989. I'm not sure if this is the case for Canada or if your #'s represent the U.S. or North America as a whole. If they do representjust cars delivered to the U.S., they were 1989 model years sold in 1990 (left overs).

I can garuntee you wont find any U.S. Spec 1990 Turbo's anywhere.

In the U.S.
217HP Turbo was sold in '86, '87, & '88
247HP Turbo S was sold in '88, & '89

My former Turbo was a 217BHP '88

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[benspeeder]

Fox944 - U R Correct Sir! Must be enough leftovers that the SCCA said that the 944 Turbo would work for STU!!!

But which car would be quicker? 968 or 951...

951 will run at 3100 pounds with a 39MM inlet. 968 would run at 3300 pounds. I can do cams also in this class - after sleeping on it I figure I'd rather run the 968 unless thoughts are that the 951 would be that much faster

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[RS Barn]

Fun, Fun, Fun
Hp vs Torque and Driving ability is always interesting

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[jeff968]

Even though Canada is part of the North American market they often get cool stuff that the US does not. This applies to the 968 as well.

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[333pg333]

I think you should refer to some times by similar cars and make your mind up then? The times should be fairly conclusive.
I would think the lighter turbo should be faster. Can you do cams in the 951?

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[benspeeder]

Yes - If I were to go full STU national racing I could do cams, change to bigger brakes, increase compression and do better pistons too.

Great suggestion on looking for some 944 turbo times. I'll look over some of the PCA results and see what I can find.

At the end of the day I just love the 968 - figure we'll see what I can do with it against the real STU national cars this season...

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[craigawoodman]

Peter Fitzgerald Racing in Melbourne Australia made 4 Porsche 968 RS replica's. I was talking to him recently and he commented that he could make another for around $35k AUD.

If you turn your 968 into a 968 RS - then you should be able to run 18 inch tyres plus larger rears than stock.

Food for thought. The guys over here that have owned the 968 RS replica's say they are sorry they ever sold them (and they have owned 911 turbo's as well).

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[benspeeder]

Yikes - way too much $$ for me to put on the track. I only race what I can financially walk away from as a total loss.

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[333pg333]

Ha, yeah welcome to the 'Rest of the World' prices. I've heard some not so good stories about the PF cars. Could be urban myth. Besides, he'd be charging $35k au to convert a 968 to a turbo. Add to that the cost of the car, at least another $35kau....

If you have the latitude to do those mods to the 951 then it will be waaayyy faster than a 968. You could increase c/r and run E85. Then you'd be talking about a seriously fast and responsive little car.

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[MC968CS]

Interesting...why would the mods be way faster on a 951 than a 968?

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[dlearl476]

>quote name =Anchorman I'm sure someone will step up to this, but I'll take a shot...

>I believe ROW is less elitist than you might think. It has to do with the unique regulations with which cars made for the US market have to comply, and which >require "unique" (i.e., US-only, not ROW) elements. I think this are largely safety-related, but were (and still may be, I'm not sure) emissions-related.

You are correct most manufacturers make "North American" vehicles that comply with, mostly, US DOT regs and EPA emissions regs. Mostly because most cars that comply with US regs comply in Canada.

>quote name='jeff968' Even though Canada is part of the North American market they often get cool stuff that the US does not.

In some cases, yes. Mostly due to vehicles with non-emissions compliant engines. The SMART diesels come to mind. AFAIK, CA also has more lenient regulations regarding small-scale manufacturers which allows for import of vehicles like TVRs, Marcos, Catherham, etc.

>This applies to the 968 as well.

Not according to my parts catalogs. Every Porsche listed, going all the way back to the 356, lists US/Canada models and ROW models. Even prior to the advent of DOT safetly regs in 1967, North America and Europe had different regulations regarding turn signals, headlights, and IIRC, bumper height.

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[Fox944]

Canada still gets certain items the U.S. cars do not. For example, rear seats in the cab. (someone correct me if this is misinformation).

And of course, they got a lot of cool cars we did not get....for example....1994 Canadian Spec M3 which had ITB's & 286HP. The U.S. got a 240HP M3 in 1995 and the closest thing we got to an M3 in 1994 was the 325iS M-Sport which was essentially an M3 with a 325i drivetrain. Then you have the 540i M-Sport which the U.S. did recieve, but not with the same goodies that came on the canadian spec cars...such as 18" Wheels (among other things). Many of these goodies that were avail on canadian market cars (but not on u.s. cars) have nothing to do with emissions or safety, but all are available through your parts department if you'd like to upgrade your u.s. spec car. So they would be found in the parts catalogs.

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[dlearl476]

Interesting about the seats. I'd be interested in whether the DME is the same. Unfortunately, the PET is of no use as none of the catalogs list the rear seats and the DME's for all markets have the same part number.

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[flash]

the DME is the same worldwide - from what i have been able to determine, the chip is not

you can probably find the rear seats listed in the ROW catalog

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[Willem968RS]

A good place to look for info about the original 968 Turbro RS and the other transaxle Porsche is here;
http://www.deutschnine.com/porsche-transax...68-turbo-rs.php

Have fun!

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[benspeeder]

Great links - thanks!

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