[rhudeboye]

If I'm asked to decide between being slapped with someones left hand or their right. I wouldn't dignify that question with an answer as both choices lead to a course of action that I don't welcome.





No disrespect to those that vote or for those that fought for the right to have a voice. It's simply my stand on the issue.

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[flash]

i agree



as for "nobody to blame but yourself", i disagree. the system doesn't work. for that we have nobody to blame, but that does not mean that i need to choose between what is there, just because there is no better choice. with the system in place as it stands, i feel it really doesn't matter who we elect. the result is essentially the same



however, if i were not involved in changing things, then i would have nobody to blame but myself. i merely choose to participate in other ways than voting.



that being said, there are years that i wished i had voted on particular issues, but never for any candidates that i can remember. living in california, it's never close. that's why the electoral college makes no sense any more. we had a national election go wrong due to it, and look at how much fun that was. the system doesn't allow for the popular vote. it only allows for the party vote. it's time for change.



a little revolution now and then is a good thing.

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[ds968]

+ 1 on flash's electoral college opinion.

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[lbpesq]

I always vote. I've also been involved in drafting legislation and initiatives ( I co-authored California's Prop 215, the medical cannabis initiative). I also feel like my vote doesn't do anything, but I keep on doing it. To paraphrase Jimmy Stewart in "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" (one of my favorite movies - a must see), "lost causes are the ones worth fighting for".



And you can always write in a candidate, or write in "none of the above". If nothing else, it feels good.



Bill

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[flash]

if you write in "none of the above" it is ignored. if it counted as a vote against all listed candidates, i would be fine. that's what i'd like to see. a vote that counts as a vote against all listed, thereby reducing all of their totals.



that is, as long as we have to live in a republic and not a democracy. if we were in a democracy, then it wouldn't matter, as there would be no candidates or parties at all. obviously a true democracy would not work in large scale any more than socialism would. but at least we could get rid of the party system, abolish the electoral college, and let the candidates stand for what they stand for, and not what their party tells them they have to negotiate and compromise to stand for.

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[ds968]

" and let the candidates stand for what they stand for, and not what their party tells them they have to negotiate and compromise to stand for. "



ABSO-Fng-LUTELY ! Sadly, that'll never be the case.. or at least, not in our lifetime..

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[Todd]

I vote every time in all elections. Sometimes twice.

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[Langley968]

[quote name='Todd' timestamp='1320250128' post='117404']

Sometimes twice.

[/quote]



???

is that possible in a "first world" system? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/glare.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[968Syncro]

I vote, but wonder if it is worthwhile. Remember ... the power of the vote is not what it used to be. It was originally intended to allow people influence what the governments do, by selecting candidates who actually state what they will do. But candidates now tell the public anything, just to get elected, and never what they intend to do.



The only voting power we have left is to "not reelect someone" and by then it is usually too late.



Roland

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[rhudeboye]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein

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[Cloud9...68]

While I often get cynical about the whole process, I have to ask - what kind of country would we have if everybody decided voting was a waste of time? Scary thought, imho.

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[Scott Collins]

Out of curiosity, what do you folks who don't vote and also complain about things do to influence the political process?

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[flash]

lobby

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[Tom030]

Worth the read.





In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of

Edinborough, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some

2,000 years prior:



"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a

permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until

the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts

from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for

the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with

the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal

policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."



"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of

history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations

always progressed through the following sequence:



From bondage to spiritual faith;

From spiritual faith to great courage;

From courage to liberty;

From liberty to abundance;

From abundance to complacency;

From complacency to apathy;

From apathy to dependence;

From dependence back into bondage."



FWIW

~tom

Yes, I vote.

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[Cloud9...68]

Tom,



Nice quote. A little off topic, but I believe the essence of the greatest, probably insurmountable flaw with our democratic process (yes, I know, we're supposed to be a republic - we're really a hybrid) is contained within this passage - that every politician's primary goal is to keep getting re-elected, and the surest way to do that is to ensure that the maximum quantity of tax dollars funnels its way to their state or district. Benefits for the few at the expense of the many. This is why congress has an overall approval rating in the teens, and yet the vast majority of incumbents keep getting reelected. The best solution to this flaw that I've heard proposes that any year congress doesn't submit a balanced budget, the entire body of congress is ineligible for re-election. Ruminate on the implications of that for a moment. It would be a beautiful thing.

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[Rap]

So a senator who was just elected has 6 years of being a lame duck with no accountability under this proposal. Might be somewhat at odds with the constitution. Term limits which are an old saw. Require those in Congress to have the same type of health benefits and access all the rest do. Eliminate the ability to become a lobbyist at the end of a career or after someone loses an election. Reduce staff and office allowances. Reduce the gravy train for congressional fact finding junkets. make the retirement package a 401 k type benefit instead of a defined benefit. Balanced budget is good in theory but doesn't work in times of crisis. There are ways to fix things. There needs to be a will. Complaining or ranting against wall street or banks isn't it. I marvel that we boomers who grew up in the 60's and 70's forget that involvement in the system is what brings about change.

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[Cloud9...68]

Rap - well said - I agree with pretty much everything in your post, except for your objections to the proposal. It would force members of the congress to prioritize the big picture, as opposed to just focusing on bringing the bacon home to their individual districts. And I agree that a balanced budget doesn't always make sense; there would have to be some well-crafted wiggle-room.



Your recommendations make all kinds of sense. But how do things that take away many of the privileges of being in congress get voted in by the very people who they will hurt?

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[rhudeboye]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' timestamp='1320285278' post='117442']

But how do things that take away many of the privileges of being in congress get voted in by the very people who they will hurt?

[/quote]



Reminds me of a song called the "Mystery Of Iniquity"



Do we expect the system made for the elect

To possibly judge correct?

Properly serve and protect?

Materially corrupt

Spiritually amuck

Oblivious to the cause Prosperously bankrupt

Blind leading the blind

Guilty never defined

Filthy as swine

A generation pure in it's own mind

Legal extortion

Blown out of proportion

In vein deceit

The truth is obsolete

Only two positions:

Victimizer or Victim

Both end up in destruction trusting this crooked system

Mafia with diplomas keeping us in a coma trying to own a piece

of the "American Corona"

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[Trueblue]

I vote.........Best paint, most original, best modified, nicest interior, etc...........

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/EmoticonCar.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Rap]

If you notice the anti tax sentiment in this country that seems to be growing(notice the proposal just overwhelmingly voted down on Colorado) voters are finally starting to speak. I voice no opinion on this decision by these voters because I have no facts or info. At the risk of boring this multitude, Comgressional office has become a money grab with an almost secured financial life during and after office. The framers meant for citizens to serve their govt in elected office for short periods of time. The lifetime political career was not envisioned and for good reason. Apart from the risks, even those that served could not be away from their livelihoods for that long. Limit the time allowed in office- term limits. Without this mechanism I suspect the other ideas I put forth(not my own by the way) will not work. I am not against a balanced budget. In Pa. As in many states it is law. However this year was the first year in 9 years that a budget came in when due by law. Previous years they were months late. This decimated many business's that had not only to continue to do business with the state but couldn't be paid. Ours included. We were forced in essence to provide the state with zero interest loans. We now do less biz with the state and will continue to drive that down as a percentage. Whack me over the head I learn! I am not necessarily a strict constitutionalist but we have the distinct advantage of having a constitution that was written by what was arguably one of the greatest assemblies of human intellect the world has seen. I am a little step kind of guy. No leaps into the lake. This has to start somewhere not all at once. Moving inside the beltway is corrupting. I lived there for a long time and marveled at this. You can't trust a politician to do what they say or follow the platform they ran on. You can however limit the amount of time they can do damage!

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