[Cloud9...68]

But then you're stuck changing wheels when you get to the track, and then again before you head for home. Ugh. There's just no easy solution. That's why it's my life's dream to forget all this track-your-own-car nonsense and do this:



http://www.skipbarber.com/regional.asp



Which is exactly why I plan to work till I'm at least 80. Or win the lottery somewhere along the way.

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[tbillow]

Still interested in a tire trailer? I have one for sale. If interested will post pics. Asking $400.

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[Rap]

Yes please do. Does it come with the hitch?

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[MB968]

[quote name='Rap' timestamp='1376830811' post='147482']

Yesterday I got a initial read that I might have broken the link pin on my front sway bar. Somehow this made the problems with the rear. Anyone care to explain to me how this connection, if at all, had this impact on the rear squirreling out on me regularly.

[/quote]

A softer front end will make the front have less tendency to understeer. Thus on balance, you will find the rear to be more likely to be at its limit. In the early 90's when the Probe/MX-6 were class winners in the autocross nationals, they won with a disconnected front sway bar to give the car a better balance. In the stock class they couldn't increase the size of the rear bar which would have increased the limit of the car. Next best thing was to disconnect the front.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='MB968' timestamp='1376924176' post='147539']

A softer front end will make the front have less tendency to understeer. Thus on balance, you will find the rear to be more likely to be at its limit. In the early 90's when the Probe/MX-6 were class winners in the autocross nationals, they won with a disconnected front sway bar to give the car a better balance. In the stock class they couldn't increase the size of the rear bar which would have increased the limit of the car. Next best thing was to disconnect the front.

[/quote]

Yes, I've read that disconnecting the front sway bar is a common "trick" for front wheel drive autocross/track cars.

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[flash]

old trick. most of the british sportscar guys i ran with disconnected both bars for autocross, and almost everybody disconnected the front one. the idea was to induce oversteer, and create some roll so the weight transfer under acceleration was maximized.



very different than setting up for track



back to tire trailers, while track tires will definitely grab better, but they aren't going to be the defining difference in your times and experience at the event. changing them back and forth is a pain, and hard on the hardware. i think i would just run a REALLY good street tire, and call it a day until it's time to go racing, and then get a bloody trailer and leave the car set up for track. at least until you are no longer making mistakes that cost you time, track tires are the last thing to put on the list. they are a complete waste of money unless there is a trophy at the end.

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[Cloud9...68]

I think Flash nailed it, and it's the approach I took (great minds really DO think alike...) with my Hankook RS-3's, which Grassroots Motorsports rated as the top performing extreme performance tire, by a wide margin at that. In fact, I wonder if even these are a bit too extreme, as they have a pretty poor wear rating, so I may go with something even less aggressive once I wear the Hankook's out, which probably won't be too long.



With more and more people tracking their cars, this whole issue of tires that can do double duty is really heating up, and many, if not all, of the tire manufacturers are hard at work on tires that will turn very fast track times, but still be suitable to drive to and from the track, and last more than a few track sessions. Ideally, the best approach is to either drive the car on the track using the same tires you drove to the track on, or trailer the car to the track. Both approaches eliminate the need to change the wheels at the track, which I agree is probably a bad idea all the way around, but in Rap's case, where I believe he has to sometimes drive pretty long distances to get to the track, he may be stuck with it.

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[flash]

nah - he's loaded. for another $10k-$15 he can pick up a chevy pickup and a trailer, carry all his crap, have a much nicer drive to and from the track, and not worry about how to get home in a broken 968

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[Rap]

Loaded. Yo who you be talkin bout! Perhaps I should just get a driver /mechanic so I wouldn't have to deal with this stuff. Ah dreams, ain't they wonderful? I watch guys who trailer their cars who change tires all the time. I will admit I always hope the car will drive home and it won't be a big pain in the ass by breaking down. The tires just don't last and it seems cost inefficient to continue to run through them. Running three vehicles and a trailer plus insurance seems like a pretty expensive proposition also.

I'm not loaded so these are considerations that must be factored in. The cost of DE itself has been an eye opener!

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Your trailer would be covered by the vehicle towing it...I put additional coverage on both of mine and the cost only $20 bucks a year additional. Once you buy the trailer, you would be surprised the uses you can find for. My advantage is a lot of property on which to park. People who live in residential areas, not so lucky. I haul cars all the time. My 968 blew off a coolant line last week. Fortunately I was at the wife's office.



Grabbed her keys, jumped in her car, went home grabbed truck, attached trailer, went back to car, pushed it in line with trailer, hooked up winch and loaded car - off to Euro Mech. No expensive tow bill for me. Done right, done my way and immediately at the shop.



The Warn winch was almost half of what the trailer cost me, but it saved my cookies last week.

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[robinlarry]

I agree changing tires at the track is a PITA. That said, it's something that can be done at the hotel the evening before the event. Set your air pressures at the hotel in the morning before you heat up the tires on the way to the track.



You also have your street tires available as a backup for blowouts and rain.



Why spend a fortune redoing your suspension, engine, stripping the car ec. if you're going to be limited by your street tires? Mount the Hoosiers on your 18s and find a reasonable all weather tire for the 17 inch street wheels.



That said, do this only after you've had enough seat time to take advantage of the better rubber.

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[Cloud9...68]

I guess it would depend on the nature of the event. If we're talking about a 200+ mile drive to an all-weekend event, the tire trailer approach doesn't seem all that unreasonable. But if you're lucky like me (in this respect, anyway) and live within 20 miles of three outstanding tracks, the idea of driving 20 minutes to the track, and then swapping tires on and off before and after a 20-30 minute session, is so not happening. But the day I'm ready to graduate to full-race tires is going to present a serious challange that I dread even thinking about, as I don't have room anywhere on my property to store a trailer, unless I make some serious and expensive modifications to my yard.

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[flash]

of all the guys i've seen at these DE events, i can think of 2 who needed track tires. all of the rest made enough mistakes that they lost way more time from that than any tire could have benefitted, and in fact, race tires would have likely gotten them into more trouble than street tires.



the only real advantage i see in carrying track tires is that you won't trash a tire and not make it home.



i'm still a proponent of a truck and trailer. they aren't expensive, and you'll make all sorts of new friends once you get the truck - lol

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[rl968]

Look at nitto nt01 tires. When I was tracking my car, I used these. They can go on street or track and they are really good for the track. They heat up relatively fast and last a long time. I ran 255 in rear and 225 in front on 17s. They are also very reasonable, think I paid 700 for 4 shipped.



If anyone s interested, I still have the 17s and nittos on them with 70% life. I can't ship, so local pick up only. The rims are orange, but can easily be painted another color.



Btw, driving a 968 on the track and expecting to drive it home is not realistic in my view, the same would go for just about any 20+ year old car. Trailering gives good piece of mind and one less thing to worry about.

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[Cloud9...68]

I agree that racing tires are overkill for a DE event, other than as practice for when you're ready to actually start racing in a class that allows them.



This is a ways off for me, but the challenges I'm going to have when I'm ready to start racing are:



1) The 968 probably will no longer be driveable on the street, meaning I'll need to buy another car

2) I'm going to need a trailer, and a truck to pull it

3) I hate trucks, and would rather walk than use one as a daily driver

4) Which means I'd be needing two new vehicles, one to drive on a routine basis, and one to haul the 968 to the track on a trailer.



No wonder so many people who would really like to race stay with DEs/track days year after year. Maybe renting a truck would make the most sense for me. But I'd still have to find a way to make room for a trailer. Or maybe rent the trailer as well. Hey, why not rent the race car, too? Sure would have saved me a whole lot of time and headaches!

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[rl968]

It's a very slippery slope.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yep. Maybe I should consider a different hobby. Or if it has to be racing, maybe sticking with karting...

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[Inkedupfatboy]

You will spend far more renting a truck and trailer in the long run than buying one. Maybe you can just hire out as a driver for someone? lol

Flash is right, once you have a truck and trailer, everybody wants to be your friend.

"Yes this is my rig, no I won't help you move."

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[Cloud9...68]

I've made it one of life's goals to never own a truck (along with vowing to never run a marathon...), and so far I've succeeded. May have to break down when it comes time to race, though. Wonder if there's such a thing as "truck sharing..."

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I don't' see what's so bad about trucks. I have taken the opposite vow. I will never have a vehicle without four wheel drive. Even in Florida, I insist. In case I travel or have to drive to get out of dodge in a hurry. Weather often necessitates having it.



You also save lots of delivery fees when you can go pick up your own crap...appliances, furniture, sod, mulch, cars, motorcycles, toolboxes, car parts, TV's (big tv's) etc...I saved probably enough in delivery fees in the last 5 years to pay for at least one trailer.



I hauled my daughters to college, took them both cars, one to Boston, one to North Carolina, Haul my bike around...man it's great. No waiting for a tow, just go home and get the rig.



Oh well, you gotta do what you gotta do! Good luck...maybe just run a rod through the tires and then tie each end by chain to the car and let them roll behind you? - lol, Sorry.

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