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Speed is relative
#1

After reading the trash talking thread http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=2900&st=20 I noticed the discussion leaning towards the power and grace of our 968s vs other cars post 2000 and I felt the topic was worthy of its own thread.



IMHO, from a driver’s point of view our 968s are considered inadequate simply do to the smooth feel at high speeds. I’ve found that 90mph in 5th is very smooth and pretty quiet w/ no strain on the engine what so ever. While 80 in most Japanese sports cars, MR2, S2000, 350Z all feel very fast and complement that feel with engine sound.



Point number 2. The aero dynamics of this car is amazing. I can travel at very high speeds roll down the windows and have little air enter the cabin. Air moves around this car so efficiently that there’s little drag. No loud blasts of air on the wind shield and mirrors that cause so much noise in other cars.



Now onto my strongest point, which is that of POWER. I found that a lot of sports cars, particularly Japanese, do a good job of running up to 80 or 100MPH but afterwards the engine begins to strain. My Porsche tends to pull harder at high speeds and I have yet to feel it wane. When I first got the 68 I still had my MR2 Turbo and would drive both. I use to assume the MR2 was faster, do to feel. But after running them both hard and past 80.I found that the power in the 2 would wane. The Turbo provides a nice kick and the feel of speed is there. However running with my friends 951 proved that it was in a different league. Same 951 (twin chipped and pushing 18PSI) runs w/ my stock 68 and couldn’t walk away from me.



Bottom Line- Porsche does an outstanding job of building quality refined sports cars that despite the numbers (HP, Torque, etc) can run with and beat many of the newer cars today boasting bigger numbers.



Take the Cayman for example, no one considers that a lightweight car. Now look at the numbers.

· 245-horsepower 2.7-liter flat-6 engine

· 5-speed manual transmission standard, 6-speed manual
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#2

I agree with the points made...

This is my 2nd P-car and what impressed me early on is how these cars feel at high speed. As mentioned even in the triple digits this car is very comfortable and seems to be at ease.

One time while getting on the freeway I ran up through the gears and didn't realize I reached 110 at the bottom of the ramp! After a quick look around I backed off, but what fun... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#3

i actually agree with a lot of this - that is why this is a great road car - not a sportscar really, and i miss a lot of that, but certainly a great road car, which is why i bought it



the upper aerodynamics are decent, depsite the average cd spec - fairly smooth up to 145 or so - the underbody aerodynamics are a bit of a mess though, producing a lot of rear lift (which they corrected some of on the turbos) but i'm working on that too



all in all, a nice car, with lots of room to play around - still though, i get what they are saying - it doesn't cost much to run away from this car in nearly all aspects



in its day, this car was competitive, though beaten on the track by others for less money - however, as said, the quality level was not there on the others



today, the bar has been raised a lot in the performance arenas, but i often wonder what those cars will be like in 14 years - these tend to hold up very well - i'm not sure i would be able to say that about a japanese or american car



bottom line - i love my car, and plan to keep it, regardless of what the Jones's have coming out
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#4

[quote name='flash' date='Aug 24 2006, 03:49 PM']all in all, a nice car, with lots of room to play around - still though, i get what they are saying - it doesn't cost much to run away from this car in nearly all aspects

[right][post="25540"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



also agree...but only in the 0-100mph domain. sure thing, lots of choices there.

however, I think you'll find the 968 simply annihilates most of the new and affordable cars with far more impressive 0-60 stats than ours once you get to the 100-150+ acceleration zone.. and even compared to super sport cars who better ours by perhaps as much as 2 seconds in the Q-mile, in the upper mph range a side by side run would not leave the 968 completely embarrassed either.

to outrun it after 100 mph, I believe you're not going to find all that many reasonably priced 1992-2006 vehicles to do it in - maybe a handful, if that.
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#5

ok - lets do a bit of quick comparitive math



a 968, in today's money is about 70k



using that figure, and looking at cars there, and below, there are quite a few that will outrun it - i didn't have to look very far



common comparisons include the cayman S and the Z4 - these are priced below what the 968 would be today, so that seems a reasonable comparison



both the cayman S and Z4 do 1/4 miles in the low 13s at speeds of over 105, top speeds of 160 or better, 50-70 speeds about 7, and hit 100 in 12 or less, 150 in less than 35 seconds



our car does the 1/4 14.4 at 97, tops out at 156, 50-70 at 7.4, hits 100 in 14.7, and 150 in way over 45.8 (i could only find a spec of 140 at 45.8) - in the 35 seconds it takes the others to get to 150, we are barely going over 130



i also found a chart of speedo accuracy corrections - at 130, our speedo is reading 139 - so, take that into consideration too



bottom line, our car is WAY slower at top speeds than either of these



i still love it though
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#6

Hmm, I'll have to check my time next time. That time to 100 seems a little high...
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#7

I 've got to take issue with the price of a Cayman S. Good luck finding one under $70K.....it would pretty much have to be a stripper.



And......can we not take into account the most basic of mods on the 968 (chip, airbox) make our cars a bit faster (and almost all of us have done these mods) then the performance #'s are better then the #'s quoted meaning we are not that far apart from a new (expensive) Cayman S. Truely are there THAT many cars out there? I think not. As someone pointed out what kind of shape are any of these supposed "better/faster" cars going to be in 14 or so years from now? Apples to apples?



And......who would want a Z4?!?



Ron

94 coupe/6 speed
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#8

not sure comparing the 968 in "today's dollars" with new cars is all that relevant in my mind.. a decent 968 coupe is available for < $ 15 k and it can perform equally or better IN ALL RESPECTS than cars which cost over $ 75k...except for the Vette I suppose..



as for the Z 4... " going 160 or better " ?! ok, first, I thought all BMWs are limited to 155 , but I could be wrong. second, the Z 4 top speed is listed at 147 mph - so how does it get to 150 in 35 seconds ? no doubt the latest model is a rocket, but I think up to '05 the Z4s could not hold a candle to the 968



and the Cayman S - ditto on Ron's comments.



back to my point - hard pressed to find too many new cars below $ 75 k that are in the same post 100mph performance category as the 968 .. again, a handful of them only..
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#9

ron - i got the prices right out of a car and driver you just gave me - price as tested was 68,650 - base price is 59,695



pete - the 968 numbers came from an article in Autocar - the reprint is in the Brooklands mag
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#10

Bob....not my point. I've been on 4 Porsche dealer lots since the Cayman S came out and I have seen exactly 2 cars priced under $70K out of perhaps 35 cars. You would be hard pressed to find many under $70K and you will never find one at $59,695. I'm talking real world.



Ron

94 coupe/6 speed
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#11

Yeah, I have found myself topping 3rd gear on some on-ramps heh, and my car is bone stock. Though my 0-60 times are about 7.5s. Granted I dropped the clutch instead of slipping it, and didn't throw gears. Still, I can see how smooth power and a quiet engine would make it feel like the car wasn't going anywhere. I've heard stories of a rotory bike (yamaha I think), being scraped after a short run because it's power delivery was too smooth.



I've read that once the 968 gets to around 300 HP, it feels like the right amount of power for the car. But still, this car can definitly out perform me heh <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#12

this may be a bit OT, but with the Cayman entering the thread and being that it's Friday...



you guys may find this strange but in an equal price scenario, given the option to have a new Cayman S or a 968 in showroom condition and with very low mileage, in spite of my thirst for using every top speed mile I can get out of a car, and in spite of the superior handling I also would be giving up, I would not think twice about the choice, and take the 968 in a "New York minute" over the Cayman. Yes, I am THAT superficial when it comes to aesthetics <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> The same applies to most "911" variations, except a GT2 or GT3...and maybe the perennial 993..



btw, did I mention I love my car ? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#13

[quote name='midblue' date='Aug 25 2006, 05:01 PM']Bob....not my point. I've been on 4 Porsche dealer lots since the Cayman S came out and I have seen exactly 2 cars priced under $70K out of perhaps 35 cars. You would be hard pressed to find many under $70K and you will never find one at $59,695. I'm talking real world.



Ron

94 coupe/6 speed

[right][post="25585"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Was just on Tishers lot yesterday. They had 3 Caymans and one was an S the price was approx 70K.



Has anyone test drove one of these yet?
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#14

I've only test sat in one, they're a lot more upright than the 968
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#15

ron - this is los angeles too - all such things are at a premium - since the dealership is a franchise, i would think that a bit of prudent shopping at out of area dealerships would resolve the price issue - run out to modesto or some other such godforsaken place, and i'll bet you find a better price



also, i'm hearing the prices have fallen a bit since the introduction - a lot of dealerships had a premium on them when they first came out - now, like everything else after the newness is over, the price is leveling off



remember your razor phone? what did you pay for it a few months ago? they are free now



now there's a thought - maybe we can get the cell phone companies to start selling cars
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#16

Dealers are discounting the hell out of the Cayman from what I know, especially the '06 models. They are also running a great lease program for employees so if you know an employee of a delaership maybe they can get you in on it somehow.
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#17

Hmmm, I'm curious. Who would sell trade in there 68 in say 2008 for a 06 CaymanS if the price was $30K and they offered you $12K for your 68?
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#18

[quote name='rhudeboye' date='Aug 25 2006, 05:02 PM']Was just on Tishers lot yesterday. They had 3 Caymans and one was an S the price was approx 70K. 



Has anyone test drove one of these yet?

[right][post="25590"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



At the Portland Parade Michelin provided two Caymans to "test" drive. A short a/x course was set up at the east end of PIR. One car had "Sport Cups" and the other had "PS2s" Both cars were S models and had tiptronics. The Cayman feels and is smaller on the inside almost claustrophobic compared to the 968. That being said the responsivness of the Cayman was impressive. You didn't sit in it as much as you strapped it on. Definitely a drivers car. Would I like to have one? yeah, Would I give up my 968 that I have had for 10 years? nah! Five years from now Caymans will be like Boxters, one on every corner. I kind of enjoy the exclusivity of the 968.

~tom
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#19

[quote name='rhudeboye' date='Aug 25 2006, 05:02 PM']Was just on Tishers lot yesterday. They had 3 Caymans and one was an S the price was approx 70K. 



Has anyone test drove one of these yet?

[right][post="25590"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



At the Portland Parade Michelin provided two Caymans to "test" drive. A short a/x course was set up at the east end of PIR. One car had "Sport Cups" and the other had "PS2s" Both cars were S models and had tiptronics. The Cayman feels and is smaller on the inside almost claustrophobic compared to the 968. That being said the responsivness of the Cayman was impressive. You didn't sit in it as much as you strapped it on. Definitely a drivers car. Would I like to have one? yeah, Would I give up my 968 that I have had for 10 years? nah! Five years from now Caymans will be like Boxters, one on every corner. I kind of enjoy the exclusivity of the 968.

~tom
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#20

968 vs Cayman at same price which would I take? The newer car since it has all the newer gadgets and reliability..and it don't look or perform or handle all that bad. Our 968s are quickly becoming classics or collector cars although they drive fine. However, the parts (rubber especially) will start getting old and will begin failing with more frequency...hence reliability issues. But rubber is easy to replace.



I think the 968 will (to some extent) follow the resales pattern of the 928...only it'll never get that bad I hope. Both are great cars...but they're getting old. I don't have a Cayman because I don't want to fork over that kind of cash to have it depreciate away quickly. The 968 depreciates much, much slower. Not sure when it'll stabilize. Probably will always hold good value if kept up. The beaters will continue to plummet in value.



Just my .03.



I've put so much $$ in my 968 that I'm hesitant to sell it, but if anyone is thirsting for a absolutely great shape '94 black on black I'll make you a deal at $18K. I have three sports cars (968, 928, Audi TT Quattro) and am lusting to buy a 928GT right now and am out of parking space. My wife likes and own's "half" of the TT so I can't sell it. It's my least favorite car. The relatively unreliable (but GREAT performing) 928 I'll be keeping until I can replace it with a more powerful 928. It's near new shape...worth about $6K on the market...and I have $18K invested. The 968 I have more invested in it than what they tend to sell for..but that's the nature of this hobby. I must be sick. I buy good cars, pour money into them, get them near perfect, then sell them and get another. But once you get hooked on 928s it's tough to let go. Even if you can't trust them on long trips like you can the 968. I bought the 968 and drove it from Atlanta to Idaho 2 years ago, put time and mony in it, 70K miles, drive it on 100-200 mile trips and on special occasions and it sits in the garage too much since I don't want door dings by driving it to work.



Harvey

Pacific Northwest
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