[sasilverbullet]

My bets on the sensors around the flywheel...according to my shop...

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[Harvey]

I'd be surprised if it's the sensor on the flywheel..unless it's loose enough to rattle. Not much to go wrong there. A connection would be more likely...or a short.



Harvey



[quote name='sasilverbullet' date='Jul 27 2005, 02:03 PM']My bets on the sensors around the flywheel...according to my shop...

[right][post="8012"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

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[Harvey]

On my recent "no start" problem, I replaced everything from the plugs back to the DME (even that!) and it turned out to be a corroded connection in the area of the DME and Alarm. I spent a lot of money on new parts for nothing...but I guess I can say that I have new parts throughout...and I learned how to work on the car. That's worth a lot.



Harvey

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[S_Cal968]

I don't know if your caught my reply over at 968.net:

http://65.61.16.109/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11330



Since you're testing with your old known good parts, have you tried the old coil wire with the old cap? Just for piece of mind I'd check the voltage levels and parts listed at the above link.

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[NeedPorscheSpeed]

I just wanted to update the board on the status of the 968. On Wednesday, around 3:00 p.m., as a last ditch effort, I did the following:



1) Ensured that the DME is coming on

2) Changed out the Distributor Cap

3) Disconnected an injector

4) Disconnected the Hall Sender



Nothing changed at all; the starter just continued to spin and the engine did not fire. Defeated, I called for a tow truck, and he delivered it to my garage. The driver did such a good job that I only had to push it about 2 feet to get it completely in its place.



Since Wednesday, it has sat in the garage. I turned my attention to putting the borrowed parts back on the other cars, and fixed the seal of the Power Steering pump on my 1989 951. I'll probably tackle the 968 again sometime next week.



Thanks again to all of you who have taken the time to provide me with some suggestions. I really appreciate it. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Harvey]

Let us know when you find the gremlin. It could happen to us also. Thanks,



Harvey

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[NeedPorscheSpeed]

Harvey,



I certainly will relay my findings to the board. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> How are your machines these days?

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[Harvey]

The 928 runs strong and fast...the 968 runs half-fast (I'm gluing down the rear deck glass before it blows out at speed)...the Audi TT runs like a hopped up VW. I only bought the TT because the wife thought it was "cute". But now she likes the 968 best (more comfortable, etc. But depreciation schedule on the Audi it HORRIBLE. The P-cars eat money like it was going out of style but they're worth it (to me). I keep hoping the Porsches are an investment but so far I'm only investing into the parts companies. But I'm not complaining!



Hope you get your 968 running soon.



Harvey

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[ccannon]

[quote name='NeedPorscheSpeed' post='8165' date='Jul 30 2005, 09:59 PM']Since Wednesday, it has sat in the garage. I turned my attention to putting the borrowed parts back on the other cars, and fixed the seal of the Power Steering pump on my 1989 951. I'll probably tackle the 968 again sometime next week.



Thanks again to all of you who have taken the time to provide me with some suggestions. I really appreciate it. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />[/quote]



My car is currently performing almost identically to yours, and has just had most of the service you described as having been recently performed...



So what was the culprit?



I do have the advantage of having the car in my driveway rather than out in a restaurant, and it's not quite so hot here as it was there.

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[968rz]

Cannon, just an FYI- NeedPorscheSpeed hasn't posted since Feburary so I don't think an answer is forthcoming. That sucks as we were all waiting for the fix.

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[ccannon]

[quote name='968rz' post='37798' date='Jul 3 2007, 06:46 PM']Cannon, just an FYI- NeedPorscheSpeed hasn't posted since Feburary so I don't think an answer is forthcoming. That sucks as we were all waiting for the fix.[/quote]



Oddly enough, the car appears to have healed. On a whim I just tried it again, it started, so I ran it for half an hour on local roads. Safe back in my driveway it'll turn on and off again on command.



Perhaps my wife just flooded it really badly when she stalled?

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[Straight Four]

funny thing, my 944S had a similar problem and i could not get it started at all. turned out that my 02 sensor was gone.



ever seen a whole high school swimming team pushing a car around and around a parking lot for an hour after three hours of endurance swimming? its pretty entertaining.

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[sp4149]

[quote name='ccannon' post='37882' date='Jul 5 2007, 04:31 PM']Oddly enough, the car appears to have healed. On a whim I just tried it again, it started, so I ran it for half an hour on local roads. Safe back in my driveway it'll turn on and off again on command.



Perhaps my wife just flooded it really badly when she stalled?[/quote]



Although this post was never completed, it is very similar to what happened with our 944. Both the early 944 engines and the 968 engines have two Hall effect sensors, they are just in different positions. The 944 has two at the rear of the engine with very brittle (due to heat aging) connectors. If one of them dies the engine will crank but that is it, no fuel, etc... I believe Clark's garage had a write-up. The 968 retains one of those sensors in the rear (same part number), but adds a different Hall effect sensor in the distributor; both 968 sensors have connectors that get brittle and break easily. Earlier on this forum there was a group buy on the front sensor (THE ONE THAT IF IT FAILS RETARDS TIMING), the rear sensor is the go/no go one. We had the 944 for 16 years before one of the rear sensors went, the engine had been running great and then it wouldn't start. There is a BMW part that is about half the price of the Porsche part, the only difference in that the wire lead is about twice as long. Part of the group buy was for extra connectors that could be used to shorten the BMW part's cable. That rear Hall effect sensor is sometimes called a flywheel sensor, but it has been on these engines since the first 944s.



Given the age of these cars now, this should start happening fairly frequently, perhaps putting this into the same spare part category as a DME relay and HCV, to be carried with the car from this point forward. Easier to change than the HCV.

-sp4149

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[15psi]

Great post!



Do you have more info on the BMW part? Is it the sensor & cable or just cable?



The hall sensor cables are problematic. Jiggling them will often get the car going again (for a while)



Does the 944 have the sensor that retards the ignition if it fails? Sounds like the 968 sensor senses the cam position but the 944's 2nd sensor is on the flywheel.



Thanks Jim

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[sp4149]

[quote name='15psi' post='37940' date='Jul 6 2007, 12:07 PM']Great post!



Do you have more info on the BMW part? Is it the sensor & cable or just cable?



The hall sensor cables are problematic. Jiggling them will often get the car going again (for a while)



Does the 944 have the sensor that retards the ignition if it fails? Sounds like the 968 sensor senses the cam position but the 944's 2nd sensor is on the flywheel.



Thanks Jim[/quote]

Jim,

these posts are from two years ago on 968.net BS (before spam)





The Bosche Number for the 968 sensor is F6010-12761 List $194.53 Disc. $105.35

The Bosche Number for the BMW sensor is F6010-12760 List $96 Disc. $59.94

Substantial price difference if you need three for two cars.



Also found a BMW reference mark sensor, but no picture and different number, BSH006779; for $52.44 (@ BMW parts direct)





Additional part number info:

944/968 Bosch # 0 261 210 003 (this is marked on the sensor I removed from the 944)



BMW part # 12 14 1 708 618



I ordered (9/30/05) one of the BMW sensors for the 944 from AutoParts Warehouse.com, I received it the next day. Price was $55.26, shipping was free on orders over $50. They are a New Jersey company but drop ship from around the country. I installed the sensor tonight and the 944 started on the first crank.



The sensor lead (wire) is 9" longer on the BMW sensor than the Porsche version. Sensor and plugs are identical. I just made a small 2-3" loop in the wire secured with cable ties and that took care of the extra wire length. If the extra length bothers you, it is possible to cut the wire remove 8" and splice back together. For me it was easier to just make a single loop in the wire.



Finding the BMW alternate part saved money, but I am really impressed by the service out of AutoPartsWarehouse.com. They carry Porsche parts too, I'll be trying them again.



BTW. The Sensor came in the original Bosche yellow box which was labled with the Bosche Part number for the BMW sensor; 0 261 210 002



I think that makes 4 different stock numbers for the same BMW sensor. On the packing slip it shows both the Bosche part number and F6010-12760. For me it was a win-win result; fixed the problem and free overnight shipping; and the price was right too.



-sp4149

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[doster]

Sorry to hijack this topic but i,m peplacing the front hall sensor . Can it be removed from taking

the plate off the back of the distributer housing or do you have to remove the cam pulley?

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[968rz]

[quote name='doster' post='37961' date='Jul 7 2007, 10:47 AM']Sorry to hijack this topic but i,m peplacing the front hall sensor . Can it be removed from taking

the plate off the back of the distributer housing or do you have to remove the cam pulley?[/quote]

I found I needed to remove the cam cover as there was not room to wiggle past that, IIRC I also took the heater valve loose (just to make it easy to get at it). everything in the front can stay as is.

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[doster]

Thanks thats what i thaught but wasn,t sure, I needed to do a vario cam inspection

anyway <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[NeedPorscheSpeed]

Well guys, it is better late than never! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> I have been searching threads here, at Rennlist, and other boards in order to glean some helpful information that will help me resolve my current no-start problem with my 1993 968 (the model that necessitated this thread back in 2005 was a 1992). Anyway, after reading several promising threads, only to be disappointed because the owners had neglected to report the fix, I realized that I had been guilty of this same bit of egregiousness a couple of times in the past. So, I want to right my wrongs!



Drumroll please... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



The culprit was the DME. I swapped the DME from the 1993, and, PRESTO!, the car fired right up. Fortunately, I was able to snag a used DME; Porsche sells them for about $2500, last time I checked! My apologies for not having posted the fix earlier. I vow to always post fixes in the future, and that's a promise! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Now if I can just get to the bottom of the 1993's problem... After swapping almost everything but the DME, it seems as though it is the fuel pump.



Cheers!

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