[odb812]

http://www.seafoamsales.com



first i used this stuff in my acura slx (isuzu trooper) in the engine oil to relieve a noisy valvetrain. any isuzu owners out there know those things get noisy and sound like a diesel normally. anyways, took it on a 4 hour trip and it is more quiet than i have heard it in a few years.

moving on, in the 968 i used the deep cycle to clean my spark plugs since i put too much oil in my head a few weeks ago and they were oil fouled. then, i sprayed some deep cycle behind the throttle body plate and put the regular sea foam in the gas tank. this really smoothed out the idle and made the car feel snappier. i would reccomend this stuff if you have carbon deposits built up.

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[Etnier]

Anyone have any further input on this product?

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[whakiewes]

Blew my good friends 951 about two weeks ago. You can read about it on Rennlist. Inserted in several locations; gas, vaccum, and oil. Typical deep smoke of it cleaning and whatnot that it has done with any of mine and others cars. About 15 minutes into an easy drive, a large clacking noise...not like anything ever heard. Keep trying to diagnose, only for it all to give. Spun #2 bearing good, ruined the crank/rod, and in the short period it was clacking, sent the piston into the wall, ruining the block. What turned to be a cleaning device is now about a $5k dollar mistake. Here was our final report:



The 951 is notorious for spinning the #2 bearing, so the fact that it went bad wasn't the problem. What was the problem was that the engine was rebuilt completely less than 10k miles previous, with all new bearing, rings, everything. So this put it on two causes, the sea foam or the rebuild. After pulling the engine it was evident that the engine was rebuilt competantly. The final diagnosis was that the seafoam in the oil did two things. For one it didn't help with lubricating a problem that is already known to not get lubricated well. Second it was clear that the seafoam worked; worked at dislodging carbon and inserting it into the crank journal thus seizing its oil supply. You won't see seafoam in my cars ever again. Its great when it works, but on an engine that a basic rebuild can run you $4k, its not worth the risk when I know its going to have to be rebuilt eventually anyways.



Wes

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[RPM]

So... maybe not use it...

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[94SilverCab]

Pete Fitzpatrick at RS Barn recommends Run Rite. I have seen him use it several times (including the 2005 968 Celebration) and have not seen any negative results.



Regards,



Jay

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[flash]

if there was ever a question of buildup, i solved it by periodically shooting a tiny mist of water in the intake, while running the engine at about 3 grand - gets the carbon out very nicely, without dumping it into the crankcase



very old trick - surprised people have forgotten about simple stuff like that

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[Etnier]

[quote name='94SilverCab' date='May 3 2006, 09:59 AM']Pete Fitzpatrick at RS Barn recommends Run Rite...[/quote]

Yeah: sadly it's been all but impossible to deal with the runrite people in my search for a local shop. Pete has offered to ship some of the hardware to my mechanics, but I'd much rather have it done by a local shop experienced with the process.



Why wouldn't RunRite involve the same risks that the SeaFoam did?

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[Renalicious]

[quote name='flash' date='May 3 2006, 07:14 AM']if there was ever a question of buildup, i solved it by periodically shooting a tiny mist of water in the intake, while running the engine at about 3 grand - gets the carbon out very nicely, without dumping it into the crankcase



very old trick - surprised people have forgotten about simple stuff like that

[right][post="20347"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Water in the intake huh? I'll have to remember that one.



-ren

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[Etnier]

[quote name='Renalicious' date='May 3 2006, 12:02 PM']Water in the intake huh? I'll have to remember that one.[/quote]

Yeah, but I'm paranoid: hydrolock or something...

Flash: what's the deal: remove the air filter and give the intake a squirt with a plant mister?

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[Renalicious]

In a slight OT, doesn't water in the intake also increase performance a bit? Similar to NOS.



-ren

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[flash]

eitner - yes, pretty much - no hydrolock issues - not nearly that much water - it's really only a fine mist



renalicious - yes! water injection is a time proven and still current method of performance increase - especially on high compression, high timing advance motors, intake temps drop dramatically, combustion is improved - i have every expectation of implementing this

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[S_Cal968]

[quote name='whakiewes' date='May 2 2006, 10:10 PM']Blew my good friends 951 about two weeks ago.[/quote]



Sorry to hear the bad news. I'm curious tho, do the instructions say add it to the crankcase?? It's even dangerous to run detergent oil on anything but a new engine because of what happen to your engine. If the particles didn't get into the oil journals they may have contaminated the lifters which not good either. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/huh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

I thought SeaFoam was only for cleaning intakes and fuel system.



re: H20 injection; yep they used to sell systems for muscle cars when the octane dropped in the 70's & 80's. Yes, I've seen others trickle water from a garden hose down a 4-B carb - it did wonders to eliminate carbon. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Most just use a spray bottle...

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[Renalicious]

Tap water? Distilled water? Carbonated mineral water? Oh wait, that last one might be counter productive lol



-ren

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[flash]

i do use distilled water when i do it, same as for my radiator or battery - never heard anybody say it was necessary for the induction though - just seemed to make sense to me not to introduce other potential deposits

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[whakiewes]

On the seafoam can, they reccomend it as an oil additive, and we have done it on other cars before. I've never liked the idea, but it is supposed to relieve the buildup in the oiling system...very little amount though.



Correct me if I am wrong, but I have read a lot on H20 injection. Its not a performance gain by any means, but a method of reducing intake tempertures and combustion tempertures for engines under a lot of stress; i.e. turbo, supercharged, or as in Flash said high compression (12:1+). Every tuner and builder I have spoken with always refers to it as a bandaid for bad tuning. Just my .02. Somewhere like FLA and TX where you see average 100+ days, it may be a valuble investment since there is not much you can do...but here where the highest we see is 90, and usually in the 80's, we use it as a bandaid.

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[mitch968]

How long do you do the water spray thing? In other words, how do you know when you're done?

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[Renalicious]

Also, is it necessary to take off the mass airflow sensor? Or can you just spary right in there? Heh, I think we might need a DIY doc / FAQ for this <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



-ren

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[flash]

whakewies - reducing intake temps increases power - basically for every 20 degrees farenheit that you reduce the intake temp, you gain about 1% in horsepower - a decent water injection system can give you as much as 5% in horespower - that's about 12 hp - nothing to sneeze at



mitch - for cleaning, just a couple of minutes



ren - i haven't done it on this one yet, but anticipate no issues - gotta check the MAF to see if it could be hurt, but i doubt it, as long as you aren't squirting ice water directly on the hot wire

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[mitch968]

I tried the water mist in the intake the other day. (Not sure if I really had carbon build up, but I figured what the heck.) A few observations....



I was planning to remove the MAF first, but then I realized that the car won't really run without it in place.....no air flowing past the hot wire and therefore no way to properly set the mixture. So, I ended up shooting the mist through the MAF while keeping the revs up. With each spray, the revs would briefly dip and then recover because the water is messing with the sensor. At one point it dipped enough to stall. I figured this was a good point to stop, so I buttoned things back up and went for a ride.



When I was done, the idle was less stable initially and I think I know what caused it. Over the few minutes of water spraying, the intake became a bit wet and some of the water probably found it's way down to the idle stabilizer valve. Not sure....just a theory. I checked the engine fault codes and got a 1-2-2-1, which I believe is the MAF. I started worrying that I hosed my MAF, but then I realized that the codes stay in memory for a while. I disconnected the battery to reset the DME, and now everything checks out fine.



The end result is that I can't really notice any difference. Of course, your mileage may vary. While this method may work, I think that a cleaner delivered via the fuel rail, would probably work better cleaning up the valves. Plus, it wouldn't involve shooting water on a live electrical component (and a pricy one at that.)



Anyway, back to the topic.... I'm thinking I might give SeaFoam a shot, but only via the fuel tank, and maybe via vacuum too. I'm basically running a few different fuel cleaners in a row and then planning to change the oil. (I really need to do my injectors properly, but I don't have time to send them out right now.) Which vacuum location would be the place to draw from on the 968? I definitely would avoid putting this into the oil even though they say you can. I just don't understand how one chemical is appropriate to use everywhere.

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[Renalicious]

I just finished a tank with STP fuel injector cleaner in it, but for the engine cleaning solution I might go with the water trick, or do a Super Tune (last I heard it wasn't available commercially since it's concentrated, but it works wonders). Though I fill up with either Petro-Can or Cheveron, both of which have engine cleaners, I'm not sure what the previous owners used as fuels. I'd rather have a nice clean engine anyways <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



It's good to know that I should expect some rough idles immediatly after the water injection, though.

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