[Cloud9...68]

I've heard nothing but great things about Run-Rite, most recently during a conversation with Pete Fitzpatrick of RS Barn, so I was prepared to take the car in to get it done. But just as an experiment, I thought I'd try it on one of our other cars first, a 2003 Chrysler Town & Country Minivan with 62,000 miles on it (this is probably the only post where you'll see a 968 compared to a minivan!). I expected the minivan to be a worst case situation, because for the last couple of years, it has seen lots of very short trips, primarily the 2 mile drive from my house to the pick-up point for the vanpool I ride to work in. The vehicle is basically a workhorse that gets driven on trips we don't want to subject the other cars to, so I expected its intake to be severely gunked up.



Well, to my surprise and disappointment, the tech who did the treatment told me very little smoke came out, much less than they typically see <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> . The guy seemed pretty knowledgeable, and told me that he has observed that cars that run synthetic oil tend to have much less gunk in their intake systems, and therefore less smoke. As it happens, I run synthetic in all my cars, including the minivan.



Given that the 968 had gotten an oil change an average of every 4000 miles, prior to switching to synthetic at about 70K, and the fact that it has seen about half a dozen DEs which should do a good job of blowing gunk out, I'm now wondering if a Run-Rite treatment wouldn't be a waste of money, as it was on the minivan. The 968 has 98K miles, and has had the injectors cleaned by Marren about a year ago. I've also run Sea Foam through the throttle body about a year ago, and have used Techron (though not as regularly as I should).



For those who have done the Run-Rite treatment, have you seen a lot of smoke come out? And did you really (be honest, now) notice any difference in the way the car drove afterward? Thanks.

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[Mark]

Well it sounds like for you it may not be that big of a help for you as your injectors and throttle body are already clean and the techron may or may not have helped with the valves.



A couple of years ago at the 968 celebration Pete did a demo on Darryl's car and you could tell a huge difference just at idle and Darryl can tell you about how it drove.



I honestly don't remember anything about it smoking that time nor when he did my white one but my tail pipe was dirtier if I remember correctly. I had the whole works done just as a maintenance item and man was my throttle body filthy.

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[94SilverCab]

My head was completely rebuilt 12,00 miles ago so I haven't done run-rite on my 968. But, Pete tried it on my wife's Explorer with 95k and it not only ran smoother (subjective) the revs went down about 300 RPM at idle.



It definately made a difference.



Jay

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[PorscheDude]

I had a run-rite treatment done about 8 months ago. The car ran a little bit better afterwards. But it was hard to say as I replaced the plugs, wires and such at the same time.



I just recently took my intake manifold off and yes my throttle body was clean but, inside the manifold still had a 100k miles worth of gunk in it.



It did absolutely nothing as far as the intake runners and intake ports were concerned. The intake ports had a good 1/4" of gunk build up in them. (Which I cleaned manually)



I dont know if this helps or not.



I must say I am not really a fan of "problem solvers in can".

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[Cloud9...68]

I should add that there was no difference on how the minvan ran, idled, etc. I guess I'd have to conclude that if your car is badly gunked up (and I wish I could predict which factors impact how much gunk you have, besides mileage), Run-rite will probably make a noticeable difference, but if you and the previous owners have taken good care of the car (regular oil changes, synthetic oil, periodic flush of the throttle body with Sea Foam or a similar product, use of Techron in the gas tank), the impact will probably be minimal. At this point, I think I'll hold off, and spend the $100 on other things.

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[flash]

all 6 of the cars i have seen it done on have dramatically improved smoothness and performance - all 6 had the intake manifold scrubbed in the full 3 step process, and were not just the "dump it in the tank" method

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[PorscheDude]

I had mine done by a promoter of run-rite products. Not sure which method was used but I say spend your $100 on something else.

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[Cloud9...68]

Again, I'm not sure how a minivan with 62K miles on it compares to a 968 with 98K, but the technician did the full 3-step process on the minivan, and I felt zero improvement in any characteristic. Not saying I won't ever do it on the 968, but it's definitely going to come after things like the lower suspension brace, stainless clutch line, brake proportioning valve (all three on order from RS Barn), new clutch master and slave cylinder (arrived from Sunset, awaiting the stuff from RS Barn).



Seems like the Run-Rite has been a mixed bag. I'm sure it helps cars that have a lot of gunk built up in their intakes and TBs, but there seems to be a lot of variation as to how much build-up there is from car to car. Could the quality of gasoline vary that much in different parts of the country (seems very unlikely)?

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[flash]

fair enough - i have only the experiences here to go by, including my car - i saw how much gunk was in the intake manifold, and i cleaned it myself, so i know how much it did



as a story for the magazine, following the training manual from the company, we did the drip through and manual scrub method on all of the cars - takes about a half hour each - not sure how that differs from what others are doing, but our results were positive and unanimous



yes, if you are using a gas with techron in it, you probably don't have nearly as much gunk - that being said, when we did ron's car (and he swears by chevron and refuses to use anything else) he still saw some very nice improvement - his intake was pretty dirty too - it took 2 scrub pads to clean it



on a minivan, it's probably a lot harder to tell the difference in driving

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[Darryl]

[quote name='Mark' post='36692' date='Jun 9 2007, 06:38 AM']Well it sounds like for you it may not be that big of a help for you as your injectors and throttle body are already clean and the techron may or may not have helped with the valves.



A couple of years ago at the 968 celebration Pete did a demo on Darryl's car and you could tell a huge difference just at idle and Darryl can tell you about how it drove.



I honestly don't remember anything about it smoking that time nor when he did my white one but my tail pipe was dirtier if I remember correctly. I had the whole works done just as a maintenance item and man was my throttle body filthy.[/quote]



OK, I finally have a few minutes to respond to this thread...



I am far from an engine guy, but here is my experience. When I picked up my car, the first thing I did was take it to show to my Hungarian master mechanic, friend, and P-car guru. He started it up, smiled, (as we all do each time we start ours) and started picking it over. He tightened a few things, adjusted a few things, but otherwise gave it his blessing. I was happy. As I became more familiar with this beast, I began noticing some things and one a time, would bring them to his attention. One thing was the hunting idle speed. It would bounce around between 950 and 1000 or so. Mechanic said no idle adjustment on the 968 but rather a circuit that stabilized it and that it would probably work itself out. Not too long after was the 2006 Celebration, my first, and immediately upon arrival at Pete's, began comparing notes with other owner's. I mentioned the hunting idle and his eyes lit up and said, "I may have a surpise for you tomorrow". The surprise was a complimenatry Run-Rite treatment in exchange for using my car as the guinea pig for "the class".



I noticed a difference immediately in throttle response and overall smoothness throughout the entire RPM range. The hunting idle was gone and a rock steady 940-ish. The car seemed to want to "get up and go" as opposed to just being driven. My car came with no service records whatsoever and I'm guessing with 100K on the clock, nothing like this had ever been done. The inside of the throttle body covered two or more sponge cleaner pads with solid black crud and carbon buildup.



Not sure how often you should repeat the process or what Run-Rite recommends, but I'd say if you've never done anything like this, it will definitely help. If you've done SeaFoam or other cleaning process, it may not be as noticable and if you don't have enough miles and/or wear and tear on your engine, you could probably wait. I do know, from an early age, that a clean engine is a happy engine and properly maintaining your car will make it last longer. I'd easily spend 100 bucks or so every 50K miles if it means maintaining proper performance specs...just like changing the oil or replacing various filters.



- Darryl

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Darryl' post='36718' date='Jun 9 2007, 08:20 PM']The inside of the throttle body covered two or more sponge cleaner pads with solid black crud and carbon buildup.



- Darryl[/quote]



I'm really glad to hear about your good expereince with Run-Rite. Just a quick question about your comment I've quoted above. I don't remember reading that manually cleaning the throttle body as you've described is part of the treatment. Did Pete do this as part of the demo at Hershey as a sort of before-and-after display of how much Run-Rite cleans things up in there? And I plan to take a good look at my car's idle today. I know it's not rock steady, but I can't remember if it hunts around as you describe.

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[Darryl]

I've never read the Run-Rite can personally...my guess would be that it was/is cleaned as part of the overall process. We ran the Run-Rite through a vacuum connection directly into the intake - after the throttle body, so it stands to reason that manual cleaning would be the only way to get at this part after removing the air box. I do know there are many ways to do the Run-Rite and the connection(s) vary from car to car, but may also vary from person to person whoever is performing the process.



- Darryl

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[Mark]

Pete did/does the throttle body cleaning as part of the Rub-rite process not a before and after type demo. Pick up the phone and call Pete he'll be glad to tell you all about it.

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[flash]

yes, this is a part of the 3-step process



there are 2 different common run-rite "treatments"



one is the can of sledgehammer that you just dump in the tank - it's like having technon in your fuel, but a lot more concentrated - i have not spoken to anybody who has done this one to see if there were any major improvements



the other is a multi step process that involves manually cleaning the intake and throttle body with a special tool and pads, then the drip through process that looks like hanging an I-V bottle over the engine and takes about 20 minutes, and then there is a bottle of another chemical that gets dumped into the tank - this is the one that i have seen have great results



there is also a further treatment for the crankcase, but i have not done that one, nor have i spoken to anyone who has



i hope that clears a few things up

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[gryphon]

Might it be possible that everything BUT the Run-Rite in the 3-step process is responsible for the improvement?



Tom

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[Kim]

After the 968 Celebration in 2006 Pete lent me the Run-Rite application tool to bring back to Canada. I also cleaned the throttle body and used the oil treatment. The car did work noticeably better (especially the idle and smoothness) - even though I was having a lot of other problems then with an aftermarket chip that I didn't know was in the car. I would do it again if it wasn't so far to go!! It is probably due again. I do use Mobil-1 and tend to drive long distances when I go places.

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[flash]

well, the run-rite is the cleaning chemical, and there really isn't a way to remove the deposits on the valves without it - sure, you could probably do some chemistry homework and use something else on the scrubbing pads and clean the intake manifold and such, and on the drip through into the manifold to get to the valves - the stuff is seriously dripped in like an I-V and atomized directly onto the valves - one of the reasons it works so well is that it is very concentrated there, and really cleans off the deposits, making the valves seat better, giving more complete combustion (can you gell that i have a bunch of the training literature here?) the chemical is competely combustable, and leaves nothing behind and does not hurt the valves and such - i don't know what else you would sue that would do the same job



but yes, it is probably due as much to the method and application process as it is to the chemical itself

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks, Flash, this is good information. The only place near me that does the Run-Rite treatment is a Midas shop about 10 miles away, and they described the procedure as a 3-step process that takes a total of about 45 minutes to an hour, which seemed consistent with what I had read in Run-Rite's literature. However, I didn't watch them do the procedure on the minivan, so I don't know if they used something that looked like an IV drip, nor do I know if they manually cleaned inside the intake and throttle body with the tools you describe. I'll ask them to describe the exact procedure they used before taking the 968 there. Although the guy did say they often see tons of smoke come out of cars during the procedure, and the our van just happened to be one of the cleaner cars they had had.



I haven't driven the 968 today (been inside all day doing some much-needed cleaning), so I haven't had a chance to check its idle yet.

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[flash]

yeah - the black smoke thing is pretty normal - it will do that for a couple of minutes while it burns out the loose junk and remaining cleaner - that's why they say to go and drive it around at modest revs for a few minutes before jumping on it



the minivan won't rev as fast or have the throttle response, and probably isn't a high performance engine like the 968, so you may not notice it so much on a car like that



you might see it it fuel economy though

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[Cloud9...68]

OK, after a long enough drive to fully warm up the engine, I sat staring at the tach needle for a good five minutes to calibrate my eyeball to its minutest movements to try to ascertain the steadines of my idle (seems like I should have opened this with "It was a dark and stormy night..."). Assuming 200 rpm between tach gradations, my car's median idle speed is a touch below 900 rpm, maybe 880 or 890. The idle is not rock steady, but it isn't fluctuating a great deal either. I would estimate maybe +/- 30-40 rpm. Does this sound excessive? It doesn't strike me that it is, but then I've been around so few 968's besides my own, that I have nothing to compare to.

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