[Paul W]

It has been years (okay, tens of years) that I have had a car without AWD.....been driving Audi's forever. I remember one session at Mid-Ohio where it was raining cats and dogs, the track changing every lap. It was SOOOO fun, really gets your skills tuned.



The Porsche's and other RWD cars would sit those sessions out. Now I know why!



Get used to a RWD car has been fun.....looking forward to pushing the car some time soon, will do a few DE days next year I'm sure.

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[Lear35A]

[quote name='Paul W' timestamp='1383833254' post='151823']



The Porsche's and other RWD cars would sit those sessions out. Now I know why!



[/quote]

That would be the drivers and not the cars. When I was doing drivers ed and then racing my '89 944 Turbo, I never passed up a chance to run it in the rain. Just a different technique, but one can still go very fast in the wet in a RWD car.

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[flash]

something not often considered when choosing a tire for a dual purpose car, is actually getting to and from the event, and the conditions to which the car is subjected. that can often make much more of a difference. if it rains on the way there or back, it can really mess you up if you don't have a tire that can displace the water. coming home after a long day at the track, and hitting rain on the way, can also be a real problem. bob blackwell totaled his car doing exactly that, and he was probably the most experienced 968 driver around.



rule #1: don't drive a track car in the rain

rule #2: see rule #1

rule #3: if you plan to ignore rules 1 and 2, then set the car up for rain. don't screw around and guess, because you'll guess wrong. spring the rear suspension softer, lower the rebound and compression settings on the front, decrease negative camber all around, and add some tire pressure over what you would do dry.



we are now way off topic though.



i am looking forward to seeing the review after changing tire width. i know what it has done on other cars i've set up, and i look forward to seeing the response on the 968.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yes, I look forward to providing some hopefully useful data. Step 1, though, is getting my driving back to the level of consistency it was at (and hopefully well beyond) before starting my track car build. That should consume my current tires, assuming I mix in a lot of go-karting to extend their life. That should give me a good baseline with my current staggered, 18", tires-probably-too-wide-for-my-wheels set-up. Then I'll convert to a square 17 x 9 set-up, and compare results, ideally on several different tire brands and sizes. I dearly hope I can use the Toyo's, because I love their very low profile and light weight. If Toyo tells me it's just blatantly stupid to rotate them side-to-side, I'll shop around for quotes on remounting them. It will be very interesting to see where exactly is the optimal operating point among all the key parameters (wheel/tire weight, overall tire diameter, wheel width, tire width, sidewall height, tire brand/model, across different track configurations), realizing that some of them are confounded, making it difficult to pinpoint which one is having the bigger effect. I expect it to take well into 2014 to get a significant amount of data, but I'll definitely keep everyone posted.

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[Hasbro]

Cloud, my tires are on a different car so my sizes don't apply. You are on R1Rs, correct? I'm not sure they are as easy to switch directions with their tread pattern - curious to hear what Toyo has to say. How many miles a year do you put on your 968? I'm asking because the RA1s are a terrific street and track tire but they don't last as long as R1Rs. What a fun tire. And they are unidirectional but the tread pattern allows for reversibility after some wear. They are also ok with the tread being a 1/2 " wider than the rim due to wall structure. They are a track tire for the street as opposed to Extreme Summers being a street tire for the track. I absolutely love mine. You can spend 10k on a suspension but it's only as good as the tire.



Re rim sizes on Extreme Summers; using R1R and Kumho XS 225s (both used to be the "best" Extreme Summer) on 8 1/2" and 6 1/2" rims was an eye opener. No comparison, the 8 1/2" wheels with 8 1/2" tread were superior in every way.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yes, I've heard great things about the RA1's. They sound like direct competitors for the Nitto NT01, correct? A couple of problems, though. First, judging by the arrow on the sidewall, they're directional. Second, they're on the pricey side, especially for a very track-oriented tire that can't be expected to last very long.



My primary goal here is to stretch my tracking hobby budget, after having realized that going with my staggered 18" set-up (particularly on directional tires - another thing I didn't think through before plunking down the cash) was probably a big mistake, financially. The reason I'm so fixated on the money issue is that the one universal truth about track driving is that nothing makes a bigger impact on your learning as sheer seat time. If my budget is wiped out due to excessive spending on tires, I can't get to the track as often, so my driving suffers. I'd gladly sacrifice a little speed for the ability to log more track time. But if Flash is correct, going to a (less expensive) square 17" set-up will not only save me a ton of money, but it could actually be faster. Talk about having your cake and eating it, too. I'm happy to serve as a guinea pig to figure out which combination of wheel/tire size and brand gives the best overall results on the track on a 968.



To answer your question, I'm actually running Hankook R-S3's, which were the top rated tire by Grassroots Motorsports at the time I bought them, and they are still very competitive.

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[flash]

while tires can make a difference, it isn't nearly as much as you might think. it's not like there is a huge difference between one extreme tire and the next. they all do a great job. they all also vary in performance based on the car and its setup. so, what works great on one model of car, may not be the best for another.



the suspension and weight transfer characteristics will make a much larger impact on lap times than one tire or the other, within the same group of tires.



get the front end to stop rolling, and the back end to squat and follow it, and you'll carve a lot more time out than any change a tire can make.

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[Paul W]

I would say there is one thing that is the biggest factor: the driver. You can have all the tires and wheel combos you want, but somebody who is fast will beat the guys with the greater cars in a lesser car.

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[Hasbro]

Yes, the RA1s are directional. But they're not. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> At 4mm of tread the pattern is reversible.

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[Cloud9...68]

Paul,



Agree 100%. And the key to becoming a better drive is seat time, which, as I said above is for most of us limited only by money. Thus my quest for a way to save money on the most expensive part of this hobby, which is tires, which has opened up a very interesting discussion about all the factors surrounding what makes a good wheel/tire selection.



Flash,



Good points as usual. Hopefully as time goes on, I'll be in a good position to evaluate all kinds of stuff on this car - wheels & tires, alignment settings, spring rates, sway bar options, shock compression and rebound stiffness, etc. Since I'm not actually racing the car, I have no problem sharing what I learn along the way. But for now, priority 1 is to get my driving smooth and consistent.

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