[banditsc]

So as not to cloud the other thread and bring a little awareness to the issue, I'll start a new thread..



In the 928 world there have been a number of failures of rebuilt Laso water pumps that resulted in actual damage to the block. The issue is the impeller shaft shifts forward and starts grinding a hole in the block with it's metal impeller. I have not heard of this happening with a 968, but they are same basic design of pump, so it's possible. This is only on the rebuilt pumps.



After a lot of complaints to Laso they went about fixing the pump, the first fix that Laso did was to insert a bushing between the bearing shaft and the impeller to allow for a tighter press fit, then they went a step further and ditched the metal impeller and replaced it with a ABS plastic impeller.



The problem is not really noticeable on the car till it's to late, no noises or anything, the only clue is engine temps that begin to rise over time and eventually a water pump leak. If the water pump failed, it's damage is already done, the block is already "machined" and the metal shards are now happily circulating thru the engine. There was a kit produced to allow for fixing the block while in the car, but it's pretty involved, and probably wouldn't work on a 968.



Now for the pics...

This is the metal impeler that is used on the water pumps, think of that grinding into your block.

   



This is what the block on this 928 looked like before the water pump replacement.

   



This is what it looks like now, about 3mm was cut out of the block.

   



This is the latest revision of the Laso 928 pump with a plastic impeller.

   



Here is what a block looks like after a repair, basically the block is further machined and a insert is put in.

   



The engineering that went into making that repair kit is pretty crazy. For those of you that are bored the whole procedure is here.. http://dwaynesgarage...ck%20Repair.htm

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[fleetwood]

Dont know if I'd trust the plastic impellers either (but for different reason)

Many BMW's used to come w/ plastic impellers (a cost saving measure) -- which were known to break apart after time (without grinding themselves on the block), and are to be preemptively replaced every so often (just like bmw's plastic-framed radiators).

There are actually after-market metal impellers made for BMWs for this very reason (EMP Stewart makes the best one -- dont think they make p-car parts unfortunately) -- though the design of the bmw pump and impellers is different and wouldnt have the chance to do any damage to the block like this design does.

BMW has recently gone back to putting metal impellers on their pumps (both for new cars and on replacement parts for older cars) because of all the plastic impeller failures experienced.



If they havent solved the problem of the shaft shifting forward, then won't these plastic blades will grind themselves up on the block (even before the plastic has a chance to degrade and break apart on its own over time)?

I dont think plastic impellers are the solution (and may actually increase the number of ways it can fail).

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[jaap]

On the laso pump I have bought but not yet installed for the 968 the 'blades' are not facing the block but the waterpump side. So only a flat metal disc is facing the block side which probably will not grind the block in such a way the blades.

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[flash]

just got my new "genuine" pump in - guess what - LASO!



it seems they are now the supplier to porsche



between that and the crappy H&R sway bar substitution for the M030 bar, i am rapidly getting to the point where it seems painfully obvious what porsche is intending for our cars

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[mbardeen]

Are you sure you got the genuine article, Flash? Did it come in the Porsche box? I was looking at Pelican's site earlier and all I saw was the Laso pump. Auto Atlanta lists both the genuine Porsche pump ($460) (though closer inspection reveals it's 'remanufactured') and the Laso pump ($330).

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[tamathumper]

When I bought mine, I was told that Laso was the Porsche supplier, but I figured that was incorrect. If flash heard the same thing, then it may very well be true.

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[mbardeen]

The Auto Atlanta blurb suggests that the genuine article is crazy expensive -- it's possible nobody carries them new. Based on that, I have a feeling changing out the Laso unit every 25K miles would just be cheaper than changing out the Porsche unit every 50k miles.



I'm just basing this on hunches, not on any real info. I'm quite probably completely wrong.

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[flash]

mine said "genuine" right on the invoice. a further conversation with pelican resulted in them saying laso is now the vendor for porsche. i tried to confirm this with sunset, but no dealership has a pump on hand, and the warehouse won't pull one to look at it.

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[tamathumper]

I seem to recall mine saying Porsche all over the box, but it's been a year so I could be wrong.

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[Scott Collins]

Laso is the new supplier. It's what I installed last August after seeing that a reman pump did not fit properly.

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[flash]

i was afraid of that. the pep boys brand of porsche parts. lovely.



sway bars that don't fit like OEM - waterpumps from a cheap manufacturer - i wonder what else volkswagon is going to stick us with?

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[tamathumper]

They're cheap, but they still beat NLA.

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[flash]

lol - true enough.



but i may have to stock a pump, and change it every belt job, just so i don't have to worry about tossing my new motor.



perhaps that was their plan all along?

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

I think the main reason for these pumps to fail , or the bearring to fail .

Is standing still for longer periods of time , the bearring balls wil sink thru the grease and at the contact points damage will be done .

Same happens to wheel bearrings , they last a lot longer distance wise on cars wich see regular use .

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[flash]

i have the parts manager at sunset looking into this. there is only 1 pump in the states, and 1400 in germany. hopefully we can find out the real deal. i am having the pump that is here brought it to see it in person. it may take a few days to get a response though.

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[Chris Vais]

I went through this issue a few years back. The water pump failed and we went through 2 or 3 remanufactured pumps that began leaking the day they were installed. We finally ordered one direct from Porsche and I believe that with shipping the cost came close to $700.00. I have had no waterpump issues since then.



Perhaps, one should just replace the pump with every belt change. But, I've only replaced the water pump twice in on this car and it is 18 years old with about 140,000 miles on it and it is a daily driver.

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[Scott Collins]

My original pump went 19 years and 92,843 miles and was not leaking or failing to pump coolant. But when I spun the impeller, after I had it off the engine, it was clear that it was just a matter of time. The bearing was no longer spinning smoothly and I wondered if it would have been weeks or months. There was some dragging that I could feel in my fingers and uneven resistance to spinning it. But I'd say that was pretty good for any car.



Based on this I would say the new pump might go 10+ years at least - but that's really speculation. Can anyone compare the new Laso pumps with the OE pumps to see if there is a material difference?

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[SILVY968]

When I did my belts, my PM recommended a water pump change, "while we are in there".

He said that the reman pumps are all leaking due to warping of the mating surface, as they deck them.

I get a new pump and have had no issues.

Water cooled aluminum engines need to be cooled...not a place to save money. Don't ask me how I know!



The new pumps, as well as other parts do not seem to last as long as the originals. I do not understand why. If they are NOS, they probably do, but I think that many of the parts that we are getting as new are made with cheaper materials and poorer tolerances.

Anyone else finding this to be true?



Brian

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[ds968]

[quote name='SILVY968' timestamp='1339284753' post='127981']



The new pumps, as well as other parts do not seem to last as long as the originals. I do not understand why. If they are NOS, they probably do, but I think that many of the parts that we are getting as new are made with cheaper materials and poorer tolerances.

Anyone else finding this to be true?



Brian[/quote]



Yes, my mechanic ; he noticed the same thing for years now, and with many other parts in addition to just water pumps. Furthermore this is the case not only on Porsches but on MBZs and BMWs on which he works.. The speculation is ( since there is no proof of any kind to support the theory, but the coincidence is suspicious at best..) that cheaper materials, poorer manufacturing standards, less testing requirements before the part is released or deemed " acceptable " is the new norm. So we're not alone...not that there's any comfort in that .

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[Scott Collins]

Maybe it's because so many people just look at price, and then buy the lowest. If it's not a return customer type sale, why should the manufacturer care if the product lasts 3 years instead of 7?

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