[DiREW0LF]

My lease on my Denali is up soon and I am having a hard time deciding. Gas mileage is about the same, the Range Rover is better looking and the quality is better inside and out. Range Rovers are hit or miss, you can get one this is great with no problems or one that is nothing but. Previously I had a Range Rover and had Zero problems with it. The Porsche will be better onroad, it could outrun the 968 on a track, but fall short slightly offroad. Also, I am friends with everyone at the local Land Rover dealer where if I get the Cayenne I have to travel about 35 miles to get to a good dealer who I have never worked with in the Porsche department.





Whats everyones thoughts?

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[PorscheDude]

35 miles is not far for service, try living in Montana. (I never lived there)



Do you ever go off road?

Are you going to track the Cayenne? (I know, just say'in)



From the little info in your post, I would say the RR, because you have friends at the RR dealer, where you may get a break or priority on service when needed, and sounds like it may be closer to you.

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[xrad]

Range Rover.

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[DiREW0LF]

I used to offroad a lot when I had my other Range Rover. The Denali has trouble in 6 inches of snow and isn't much of an offroader. As for tracking the Cayenne, most likely I won't track it just because it'll be my daily driver.



The Land Rover dealer is 17 miles away as is the nearest Porsche dealer (they are across from each other), but I haven't done business with the Porsche dealer so I am unsure how it'll be, I am figuring worse case that I will have to go to the closest dealer which I know has great service which is 35 miles.

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[Fox944]

[quote name='DiREW0LF' post='63965' date='Dec 8 2008, 02:57 PM']I used to offroad a lot when I had my other Range Rover. The Denali has trouble in 6 inches of snow and isn't much of an offroader. As for tracking the Cayenne, most likely I won't track it just because it'll be my daily driver.



The Land Rover dealer is 17 miles away as is the nearest Porsche dealer (they are across from each other), but I haven't done business with the Porsche dealer so I am unsure how it'll be, I am figuring worse case that I will have to go to the closest dealer which I know has great service which is 35 miles.[/quote]





its possible that the Porsche dealer is owned by the same person/corporation that owns the Land Rover dealer. In general, Porsche dealer service is better, so is quality & reliability. The Range Rover has better percieved quality. The Same way an Audi has better percieved quality then an Acura...3 years down the road, the audi's interior plastics are flaking...and the Acura's are still flawless.



according to consumer reports, Land Rover is dead last of 34 manufacturers in predicted reliability for 2009 models. Porsche is ranked 19th. The Range Rover & Cayenne are the least reliable models from both manufacturers.



In J.D. Powers Vehicle dependability study, Land Rover is again ranked dead last (37th place) and well below the industry average. Porsche on the other hand well above the industry average and ranked 11th.

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[flash]

if i were looking merely at a 4WD for street, and a daily driver at that, i don't think i would look at either one - i would be looking at a hybrid - if i weren't towing, it would probably be the lexus

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[biotechee]

If I were forced to pick between the two, the Porsche without question. I think I would rather deal with Porsche for all matters than with RR.



That said, if I could pick any SUV or crossover, I think I'd try the new BMW X6- I really like the look. And since I do not offroad nor ever intend to, it would be about looks for me!

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[DiREW0LF]

Dealer service really depends on the dealer. My Land Rover dealer has been great, I didn't purchase my truck from them but any time I had to purchase parts I got the parts for slightly over cost and after making friends with the shop foreman and parts manager I was able to get a lot of things done for free such as software upgrades, reading codes, oil changes, etc... Since then I have made more friends with sales people, the general manager and the service writers. The only experience I'd had at the Porsche dealer was talking to a few sales people and I've gotten parts from them a few times. The issue I have is that they seem to be very uptight and not as willing to say hello when you are browsing the showroom.



I would definately like to have a Porsche for a DD, but in the long run I don't know if it'll live up to what the Range Rover was capable of. I would hate to get a Cayenne and take it offroad or in the snow and find its not as capable . Also the driving position of the Range Rover is "command seating" which offers GREAT visability where as the Cayenne is more like a car. But the whole reliability thing comes into play, even if the service department takes care of me, do I really want to spend that much time at the dealer making more friends???

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[flash]

i would also consider the bmw - the warranty service is OUTSTANDING - we considered the X5, but it would not tow



again, i think i would be looking at the main reasons for a choice, and focus hard on what you will be doing 80% of the time



in no particular order:



fuel economy would be high on the list if towing was a non-issue - a hybrid will win that one hands down



room for the big dog is a thing for us - might be for you



ease of driving 80% of the time is a big deal, as she drives it a lot



will it fit in the garage? that was one we didn't think have much of a choice on, but next time.......



service and warranty - bmw has been phenomenal - gmc has been a lot less convenient



seating position for anyone who might drive it



seating - we wanted it very comfortable for adults - a 3rd row can be a plus if you have kids (our third row has been used once, and lives in the attic)



if you are going off-road, definitely a full frame vehicle, and NOT a uni-body



for snow, look for aluminum or galvanized steel bodywork and frame



i'm sure there is more, but i am blanking at the moment

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[DiREW0LF]

Flash, one thing that bothers me about getting a Lexus is that the parts come in Toyota boxes. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> And from time to time I work with my father at his autobody and I have seen how a Lexus is built, not any better than a Kia. They are engineered to take a hit very well and protect the passengers but they end up being a throw away car just like any other Toyota, Nissan, etc...



I looked at the X6 BMW and it is a pretty good looking vehicle and onroad I am sure its great but backseat room is horrible and cargo space is less than I would like to see. They are also a bit pricey for only being a road vehicle, I could get a Mercedes with better room inside, the same cargo and a nicer ride onroad.



This has really got me thinking now, I might have to stop on the way home and test drive both of them again. Maybe the Land Rover dealer will let me take a Cayenne on the offroad track.

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[flash]

for what it's worth, the lexus next door has been flawless and looks brand new after a year - toyota is not a bad thing to me, and given the price difference, i think the fact that it is a hybrid and gets something silly like 27mpg would swing me over in a hurry

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[banditsc]

If off road is a concern, you can order the Trans Siberian model from Porsche.



Pretty good video that shows it's capabilities. It's kind of strange, it gets stuck in a mud hole spinning it's tires, then computer thinks about it and changes around the power distribution and it starts moving again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ljv1ChyVAw

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[flash]

hmmm - when i get stuck in the mud, i stop, think about it for a minute, and change around the alcohol distribution

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[Fox944]

I would also consider the Acura MDX. Awesome truck. Reliable, good dealer service, enough room for 7, can tow 5,000LBS, outhandles most trucks on the road, and should be a capable off roader. Acuras SH-AWD system is one of the best out there currently, if not thee best. A Sport package equiped MDX is a really nice SUV.

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[flash]

be very wary of tow ratings - they are not what they seem - there is a big difference between towing 5000lbs on a flat road at 55mph with no wind and over a short distance, and towing it for real - a little homework has shown that the ratings manufacturers give is really very over-estimated, and the reality is about 75% of the rating



another thing to consider is fuel type - for example, i believe the mdx runs on premium

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[Fox944]

[quote name='flash' post='63982' date='Dec 8 2008, 08:42 PM']be very wary of tow ratings - they are not what they seem - there is a big difference between towing 5000lbs on a flat road at 55mph with no wind and over a short distance, and towing it for real - a little homework has shown that the ratings manufacturers give is really very over-estimated, and the reality is about 75% of the rating



another thing to consider is fuel type - for example, i believe the mdx runs on premium[/quote]



A lot of guys tow with the MDX.



Here is what this guy had to say.



I tow my Yamaha SX230 with an 08 MDX...5000lb capacity. Estimated weight of boat, trailer, fuel is ~4500lbs. No problems encountered. The SH-AWD is a dream pulling the boat from the water. Plus the trailer stability control is nice as well...



http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w194/hu...53/P1010164.jpg





The other guys tows nearly 5K lbs regulalry.



http://acuramdx.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=369105

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[flash]

well, frankly i think the guy is an accident waiting to happen - i can see from the pics that the thing is overloaded - it makes me crazy how many guys think that it's "ok" just because they haven't had a "problem" - to be honest, i did it when i was young and stupid too - i dragged some things behind rigs not set up for it too - i never had a "problem" either, but it was a VERY bad idea



some basic rules of thumb:



if your tow rig drops its tail below level (as it does in those pics), the tongue weight is too much



if you can't climb a 6% hill at 60 mph fully loaded, your load is too heavy



if you can't stop your rig on a 6% downhill in less than 4 times the stopping distance as by itself, your load is too heavy for the setup



i really wish that manufacturers had to list "real world" capacities - it's incredibly dangerous to let people think that you can tow something that heavy with a vehicle like that - the one thing they don't list that is probably the single biggest limitation is that the tow capacity is at 55mph on flat ground - it goes down quickly beyond that speed, and when you enter hills into the equation



a good example is the grand cherokee we had - published tow capacity was well over 5000 lbs - however, real world was closer to 4000 - the flatbed trailer and 968 was too much - yes, we made it to denver and back without incident - no, it was not safe - short runs were "ok" - long hauls were nerve-wracking



that's why we got the full sized rig, and then upgraded things on the suspension, brakes, trans, and engine on that

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[Fox944]

people tow cars with other cars..granted it isnt safe...but its done in europe all the time. The rear of that first MDX is hardly sagging with 4500LBS attached to it. One would have zero issues towing a 968 with an MDX.



Whats more important is knowing how to drive with a load like that behind you. Having good brakes doesnt hurt either.



As for the MDX in the second pic, thats a sports package equiped MDX with adjustable delphi suspension set to comfort. In sport mode, the tail would not drop that low. But again, the guy in the first picture is hardly sagging with 4.5K LBS hooked on. a 3K 968 with a 1K trailor wouldnt sag at all.



But there are a lot of other good reasons to consider an MDX. If you plan to tow on the regular, no luxury SUv is really your best choice.for less then 50K, a fully loaded MDX is the best 7 passenger mid sized ute for the money imo. Between the on road performance & handling, reliability, dealer service, and all the technology they come with...there really isnt a better choice. You cant get more for less from anyone imo.



Of course, with money being no object, there are a few other luxo utes i would choose. But none are 6cyl and all cost much more comparably equiped.

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[Lonestar968]

Drive 'em both on the same day, over the same type of roads/terrain. That should help to make up your mind. I used to sell cars and for those customers on the fence I would share this little tid bit of wisdom: Rent the car for a weekend or if possible for, a week. Drive it on the same roads you currently drive every day, back and forth to work etc. You know those roads like the back of your hand so you can concentrate more on the vehicle than the road. And if you're married... well... you know.



The fact that you already have a good relationship with the dealer is a big plus and it's good for price leverage and favoritism. But a 35 mile drive might very well be worth it in the long run.



I'm partial to the Cayenne myself. I have friends who own both and it's a mixed bag of opinions and experiences from them, not much real-world help unfortunately. I personally enjoyed the Cayenne experience much more than the RR but that's just my $.02.



Have fun and post pics when you've done the deed! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[wjk_glynn]

Because Land Rover has an enormous history and they invented the whole luxury SUV bracket back in the 1970s with the original Range Rover, I'd look long and hard at a Rangie if I were in the market for a SUV. But... Consumer Reports publishes an annual reliability survey and while I don't have the report in front of me, I seem to recall the Range Rover as having the worst overall reliability of any vehicle sold in the US.



Karl.

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