[Scott Collins]

Hey Friends,



In a couple of weeks I will begin a repair project on the engine. Im trying to figure out if it makes sense to try these repairs with the engine in the car, or to remove it for much better access to the engine. Here's what I want to accomplish:



1. Replace head gasket - starting to develop external seeping.

2. Replace all belts. Timing belt has exceeded time by about 4 months, but not mileage, based on 3 years/45k miles replacement interval.

3. Replace front engine oil seals, including main crank seal. No plans to do camshaft seal.

4. Replace oil pump drive gear and seal.

5. Replace oil filter housing gasket

6. Reseal balance shaft housings - that have been "weeping" for about 5 years. Not a major issue, but an annoyance.

7. Replace balance shaft front sleeves and seals.

8. Replace water pump

9. Replace hydraulic timing belt tensioner.



I don't have an engine hoist, so I would have to buy/rent/borrow one.



Tear-down begins 22 August. To those with experience here, I appreciate your feedback.



-Scott

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[Cloud9...68]

Having been through a similar circumstance, my two cents would be that if you didn't pull the engine, I think you'd end up regretting it. The lower balance shaft housing seal is next to impossible to do with the engine in the car, plus when you have the engine out, you'll find a bunch of seals you didn't know existed, and that most of them are leaking. So, having the engine out makes tearing down the engine got from nearly impossible to borderline trivial.



The downside is that it is a HUGE job, and you'll need to find someone to help you with it, at least the first time. It's a very tight squeeze, and there's A LOT of stuff to disconnect. Plus, once you have the engine out, you'll probably find yourself on a very slippery slope, and you'll probably end up doing things you hadn't planned on, which may be a good or a bad thing.



Not an easy task either way. It sort of depends on your personality. If you're a perfectionist who really wants to have things done right, pulling the engine is the only way to effectively fix all the items you're describing. If you're OK with cutting a few corners, leave it in. But any way you slice it, if you're committed to doing the lower balance shaft housing seal and the oil filter housing gasket, you're pretty much stuck with pulling it. Best of luck either way!

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[Lear35A]

I agree that completing your list successfully with the engine in the car probably isn't going to happen. I have a couple of threads in here describing my rebuild efforts. It ain't east the first time. If your car is your daily driver and you will need it on a specific date, forget it. It will take much more time than you think. And it will cost more too.



OTOH, if you have the time, you can do a lot of things that a shop really cannot do and remain competitive. Cleaning everything, powder coating a few things, stuff like that you can do when it's a do-it -yourself project.



You will likely need a bunch of stuff tool wise you don't have either. But one can never have too many tools.



You will really know your engine when you pull it too, if you consider that an advantage.



Frankly, seals are cheap. Once the engine is out you should change them all. Since that includes changing the pan gasket, in my opinion, you might as well pull the pan and change the rod bearings at least. Well, you can see where this takes you. It is fun, in a sick kind of way.



Let us know how your thought process is going in this.

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[gbarrier]

If you are willing to do the "silicone treatment" instead of replacing the rear balance shaft housing O rings you'll be done before you could get the engine out and back in. Top and front are accesible enough. If you really gotta replace them then that might be a different story.



I'm afraid I use the "everybody drives a used car" approach. Pull it out, refresh everything like new and first time around the block it's a used car again. Fix what's broken and drive it like you stole it.

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[Scott Collins]

Thanks for the input guys!



I'm leaning toward not pulling the engine at this point. Car is my daily driver and I only have one week to complete the work - I also don't have a partner to assist with some of the work that will definitely require two people. I've done the belts/rollers/front seals before, with the engine in the car. I figure that I can also do the head gasket and water pump and tensioner with the engine in, and that way, if I run out of time, I'll do the oil filter housing seal at a later date.



Still sitting on the fence a bit, though, because the idea of being able to do that work with the engine on a stand is very alluring. I also would like to do the con-rod bearings, but I don't think I'll do those with the engine in. How much and what type do you guys use as an engine hoist and/mount?



So, that's where I am as of today....



-Scott

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[tamathumper]

If you have one week and no assistant, your mind's made up. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Cloud9...68]

"If you have one week and no assistant, your mind's made up."





[size="2"][color="#1c2837"]Truer words were never spoken. If this is your daily driver, and you really need it back in a week, AND you don't have anyone to help you, put all thought of pulling the engine out of your mind. Once you have the engine out, you will inevitably find things on it that need replacing that you hadn't thought of, which means ordering parts, which, is another week, IF they're available in the states. Pulling the engine and tearing it down on a stand is indeed a valuable experience, but one that should wait until you have the luxury of not needing the car for a few months. Best of luck with the project. [/color][/size]

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[RS Barn]

Scott,

Engine comes out from bottom on cross member. You need to disconnect bell housing to raise or lower.

Really difficult to raise out of front.

Pete

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[flash]

If you don't have a lift, that really isn't an option. Lear35A has now done it 3 times out the top, so it seems he has figured it out. I am hoping he has a DIY in the making that can be posted here.

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[RS Barn]

Anything can be done with tools and tongue depressors. Time and knuckles are the victums

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[Cloud9...68]

I'm by no means disputing Pete on this, because he has obviously done it dozens, if not hundreds of times. But I was planning to pull my engine out from the bottom, and had a neighbor who had removed his 944 engine this way help me with the job, but after a good hour and a half of staring at it, scratching our heads, and making multiple measurements, it was clear that we couldn't come close to raising the chassis high enough to allow the engine to come out the bottom. So, we took it out the top, as Lear35A did (and how the manual describes). I'm sure taking it out the bottom is the preferred way if you can do it, but you need to be able to get the car higher than a standard set of jack stands will allow to be able to go this route.



Taking it out the top really wasn't too difficult, once we got everything disconnected, which was the time-consuming part of the job. We used a standard, garden-variety hoist, along with a $25 load leveler from Harbor Freight, which really helped. My only regret is removing the hood; I should have just removed the forward bolt from each of the two hinges, and suspended it from the ceiling while tilting it back. Getting that monster back on is going to take at least three people. I'm seriously considering getting a fiberglass hood just to make installation easier.

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[flash]

funny how a mere 39lbs can seem like a ton

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[RS Barn]

Space is really limited when removing and replacing engine. There isn't much room to tilt engine up when removing or down whem installing. I didn't saw it couldn't be done. I have enough problems lowering chassis on engine assembly .

Good luck...

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[Cloud9...68]

Yes, it is a tight squeeze coming out the top, but I can't emphasize enough how much the load leveler helped. We still had to move slowly and deliberately, but we were able to adjust the angle of the engine as we were lifting it, making the operation pretty manageable, especially with two people. Lear has done it himself (!), without a load leveler, to which I can only say, "I am not worthy! I am not worthy!"

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[flash]

yeah - it may be easier to do it out the bottom, but if i have to pull mine, it will be out the top - that is how the manual says to do it after all - besides, i don't have a lift, and doing it the other way would be very dangerous without one

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[RS Barn]

I really wish I knew I could have pulled motor from top. Wow, that would have saved me so much time?

Next time I need to pull motor I will look up advice on internet, Especially from those who haven't

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[Cloud9...68]

I think we all agree that pulling it from the bottom would be the preferred method, but since most of us aren't equipped to do so, we're stuck with having to do it from the top. I had every intention of going out the bottom, especially since this is what my neighbor had done on his 944, but we found it simply wasn't possible.

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[jfrahm]

Pulling out the bottom is not hard without a lift. I am not sure if it is easier than pulling out the top though. What I did was drop the motor with the engine crane onto a furniture dolly, and then lifted the front of car body off it with the engine crane. Not too hard. A lift would be nice but this works. You have to allow the rear support to pivot safely but this is not a big problem.

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[flash]

sounds a bit dangerous to me - i've done stunts like that, but i've also had a car fall

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[jfrahm]

I guess I do not see the danger. First you have a car up on jackstands and work under it. That's common. At some point you lift one end. That's how you get the car up on stands in the first place, generally. Also common. You do not need to tilt the chassis a lot or work under it when raised on the hoist. You just roll the motor out from under it when you have the few inches of extra clearance and then lower the chassis back onto the stands. If you were paranoid you could put a strap on the dolly to pull the motor out without having to reach down under the upraised front. I recall reaching under and rolling the motor out with one hand.



You leave the stands in place so IF you were under it AND your crane depressurizes it lowers the chassis back onto the stands. If you are me, you have some other supports under there to prevent some sort of disaster. Extra jackstands intended to keep the car from falling so far as to crush someone underneath. Wheels. That sort of thing.



It's just like putting the car up on jackstands. Raise one end, put in stands, raise the other end, put in stands, raise one end, raise stands, raise the other end, raise stands, etc. You can do the final chassis lift with the engine crane since it's already in place from the motor drop and the engineless front end is light. Plus the crane is good at lifting stuff that is already well off the ground, where jacks need blocks of wood or the like to make up the difference between the max jack height and the car frame.



I do not recall how I got the motor out with the crane in place, I might have actually resupported the car after the final lift and pulled the crane out of the way. It wasn't difficult. You can save a few inches also if you drop onto a sheet of plywood instead of a dolly but I have a few furniture dollies and am a dab hand at lifting cars up good and high.



One good reason to pull a motor is to reinforce the oil pickup tube, do rod bearings, and oil pan gasket.



I am at this point with one of my cars. Pull the motor or work on it in situ? If I pull it, do I put in a V8? A later model motor? Swap in 951 rods? Reduce CR and add more boost? Lately I have lacked the time to consider even starting the project.



-Joel.

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