[Mark]

Jay- did you ever get the button off the radio I left at RSB?

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[94SilverCab]

Better, a whole new head unit with iPod capability, thanks to Darryl <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Mark]

Oh Yeah I forgot about that part of the post, I was only paying attention to the speaker boxes. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Mark]

Good News and Bad news-



Good News for Jay - Darryl can now get your back speakers working. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Bad News for Flash - We put the boxes back in the car and I don't think I want to go through removing them again anytime soon with the bar in the way like it is.



Good/Bad News for me- Darryl got my antenna working again with a new Motorola connector but it stopped working on the drive home- fixed it at home and it worked fine yesterday and quit on me again this am. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Darryl the reason the right one sounded OK was because that was actually the left one. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[94SilverCab]

Nice!, must plan a trip to VA!

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[Darryl]

[quote name='Mark' post='36773' date='Jun 11 2007, 09:57 AM']Good News and Bad news-



Good News for Jay - Darryl can now get your back speakers working. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Bad News for Flash - We put the boxes back in the car and I don't think I want to go through removing them again anytime soon with the bar in the way like it is.



Good/Bad News for me- Darryl got my antenna working again with a new Motorola connector but it stopped working on the drive home- fixed it at home and it worked fine yesterday and quit on me again this am. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Darryl the reason the right one sounded OK was because that was actually the left one. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />[/quote]



I can't believe what a crappy antennae wire this thing has from the factory. Connection must be loose somewhere else OR your theory on the antennae amp may be correct...time to pull the glove box. Maybe we won't have to pull a seat next time!



At any rate, to keep this thread on topic, yes, I do believe I have made sense of the wacky wiring for the cabs with this speaker box option for the rears. Thanks for Mark letting me guinea pig his stereo setup and we were able to fix some things in a more permanent manner from when the PO hacked things up. If your factory OEM amp works, I'm pretty sure I can talk someone through the necessary hookups. If your OEM amp is dead, there are enough wires going to and from the right places that bypassing it should be fairly easy and you could use the rear boxes as a basis for new 4x6 plate speakers...will require some creative dremel usage and will be a "no going back" option. If it comes to that, for someone, someday, making a box of some kind would be ideal, but for now, that particular project will have to wait.



- Darryl

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[tloof]

Hey Darryl,



I also have a '94 Cab model with the factory upgraded M490 option that has the rear speaker enclosures with component speakers (3 1/2" midrange with 1" tweeter). I was trying to decifer all of the stock factory wiring to see if I could upgrade all the speakers to aftermarket ones along with a new aftermarket radio with CD drive and still use the factory wiring. What I discovered is that Porsche adds a special M490 sub harness that plugs into the stock non-M490 speaker wiring that sends preamp signals from the radio down to a single amplifier under the passenger seat for the front speaker system and then back up to a brown 8 pin connector behind the radio area that in turn transfers the amplified speaker signals to the front speakers. The rear speaker signals from the radio are also sent down this same special M490 wiring sub harness in preamp form to the rear speaker enclosures which have built-in amplifiers that are wired directly within the speaker enclosure to the enclosed speakers.



Now, all the front speaker wiring from single amplifier under the passenger seat up to the brown 8 pin connector and on to the front speakers in the regular non-M490 harness are all 1.5 gauge wiring vs the 1.0 gauge that the added M490 sub harness has for the rear speaker preamp wires. Since I plan to use a radio that has its own 70W/channel (32W RMS/channel) internal amplifier I obviously only have to disconnect the brown 8 pin connector from the M490 sub harness and wire the new radio into that for sending the amplified speaker signals to all the front speakers. The rear speakers are a different case though, since the wiring is smaller gauge (the 1.5 gauge that the front speaker wiring has would obviously be better). Also, I figure that I just need to wire out the amp in the rear speaker enclosure so that the incoming speaker wires go directly to the midrange speaker along with leaving the existing capacitor functional that is on the small amplifier circuit board feeding the signal to the tweeter (the rest of the wires going to the speaker enclosure amp will just be deactivated and thus become non-functional).



The interesting thing though is that the stock non-M490 speaker harness also has all of the 1.5 gauge rear speaker wiring within the brown 8 pin connector, but I can't seem to find any connector with that wiring in it over by the rear speaker enclosures for the base system. The '94 & '95 wiring diagrams show NO rear speaker wiring for the base Cab models, but it does show there to be 1.5 gauge wiring going to the Coupe models with a base radio system. It would appear that my Cab model does have the 1.5 gauge rear speaker wiring in the wiring harness, but I wonder if it terminates into a speaker connector farther rearward in the vehicle since Porsche must have installed the Coupe wiring harness in my Cab originally (or maybe that's all Porsche ever made and they use the same harness in both the Cab & the Coupe?).



Did you come across the same thing, and if so did you find where the larger gauge base speaker wiring connector is located at in the back close to the rear speaker enclosure area of the Cab? I will continue to try and find the base harness rear speaker connectors, but if I can't find them then I will just add larger gauge speaker wiring going to the rear speaker enclosures by taping them to the existing M490 sub harness and then just completely disconnecting the M490 sub hanesss from the rear speaker enclosures.



Boy I've got to tell you that the damn snotty carpet glue was a nightmare to remove in order to lift the carpet and get to all the speaker wiring!!!!! (What the hell were the morons at Porsche thinking when they used so much glue?????)

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[flash]

i just went through this - 2 of the wires in the rear are actually the leads for the speakers, and are normal gauge - i swapped out the boxed speakers for the standard 4x6 in the white cab - piece of cake - no rewiring required



i am going to use the boxed speakers in my car - 2 pins on the connector feed the speaker box - again, no rewiring required



very simple



lol - and now i have a 2 channel porsche amp for sale

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[Darryl]

tloof,



Yes, what you discovered does indeed sound to be correct. If you look at the schematic, that's when it becomes confusing as to how Porsche wired it in the first place. You can plainly see where some signals go out and come back through the same portion of the circuit, hence the confusion. Once I was able to clip some headphones across the various leads, it started to make sense. My cab already had an aftermarket Alpine installed when I got it, so I never had to deal with factory harness stuff AND I had regular speakers in the rear, not the self powered box enclosures. I was able to tinker with Mark's 94 cab with the powered rear boxes and he still had the factory harness intact even though someone along the way butchered the wiring, the 8 pin connector was still there with enough visible wire to make out the colors. We were then able to correspond those to the schematic and make sound come out! Hooray for us!



- Darryl

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[94SilverCab]

So that means some day I'll have back speakers again? Woo hoo...



Also, I have a buzz in my passenger side door speakers, but only when I turn right...does that mean I own a reincarnated NASCAR?



Jay

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[flash]

the factory enclosures i have are NOT self powered - there is a crossover in there, but no amp - i tested this by connecting them to my HOME stereo

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[tloof]

[quote name='flash' post='46191' date='Jan 23 2008, 10:45 AM']the factory enclosures i have are NOT self powered - there is a crossover in there, but no amp - i tested this by connecting them to my HOME stereo[/quote]

I wouldn't be so certain about that Flash unless you actually opened up the enclosure and looked inside to see for sure. As far as I can see there is NO factory '94-'95 M490 rear speaker enclosure that comes without an internal amplifier unless some previous owner removed it themselves (Note: all the '92-'93 models had 4x6 speakers on an open air bracket in the rear in the Cab models). Now unless the base speaker system (non-M490) actually had a non-amplified speaker enclosure that both the Porsche wiring diagrams & parts diagrams don't show exist then it is unlikely that it isn't an amplified version. However, I suspect from looking at the circuit board inside my rear speaker enclosures that if the amp activation wire (the 1 gauge gn/red wire) were to be left disconnected (or the large 2.5 gauge red/gn amp power wire & brn ground wire were disconnected as well) that the speakers may still work OK if an aftermarket radio's amplified outputs are wired into the old M490 sub-harness speaker preamp input speaker wires (1 gauge blk/grn & brn on the right side & blk/wt & brn on the left side) since they do have a built-in internal crossover system that isolates the tweeter + feed wire from the midrange + feed wire via a capacitor (both speakers have a common - ground wire). What was probably happening when you tested it was that the speaker input signals are finding there way thru the unactivated amplifier circuitry to the crossover section of the circuit board. This is actually good to know because there would be no need to pull all of the amplifier components & circuitry out of these rear enclosures and try to wire in some sort of separate crossover when upgrading to an aftermarket radio with its own internal amplifier if that is the case (you should open up one of those enclosures and look inside to verify this for all of us).



While it is true that you could just use the smaller 1 gauge preamp wires in the old M490 sub harness to feed the new aftermarker radios rear speaker signals, the larger 1.5 gauge that Porsche uses on the base model wiring would be better for clarity. Since there IS 1.5 gauge wiring located in my Cab models base system 8 pin brown connector with all of the correct colors according to the base Coupe model Porsche wiring diagrams, then I am convinced that the terminating ends that are supposed to go to the rear speakers must be located in close proximity to where the rear speakers in a Coupe model are normally located. I do see a continuation of the wiring that has feed wires coming off it and going to the convertable top drive motors that continues rearward thru a small gap up towards the rear wheel wells. Perhaps the base rear speaker wiring is located in that portion of the harness and can be pulled back towards the speaker enclosures that the Cab M490 model has? If so that would make it way easier to connect up an aftermarket radio on these M490 models and also getting the larger gauge wiring for all the speaker runs at the same time without having to add any new wiring at all (the stock 8 pin connector cound be retained without cutting any wiring at all, only the mating connector off the old junk Porsche radio is all that would have to be cut off to create a custom adapter harness to the new aftermarket radio!)



Flash, let us know what you find out about your rear speaker enclosures!

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[flash]

i did open them up - staring at it as i type - does not look like an amp - looks like a crossover



as i said, i hooked the speaker wires up from my home stereo to 2 pins of the enclosure - full range - normal volume



the ones i have are part number 941.645.049.10 - nokia speaker



by the way - my connector is 6 pin, of which only 5 have pins



here are pics:



   

   

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[tloof]

Darryl,



Indeed, when you were working on Mark's '94 Cab you would have had to connect all four of the front speaker wires from his new radio to the brown 8 pin connector to get the signals to the front speaker system. But what about the rear speaker wiring, did you go thru the brown 8 pin connector or the red 10 pin connector of the M490 harness (did the brown 8 pin connector even have the 4 rear speaker wires in it like my Cab does?).



Also, did you wire up a bypass around the rear speaker enclosure amplifier circuitry, or do like Flash indicated he is doing by just wiring the rear signals to the preamp input connections with the other amplifier wiring disconnected? Just curious

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[tloof]

[quote name='flash' post='46235' date='Jan 23 2008, 04:38 PM']i did open them up - staring at it as i type - does not look like an amp - looks like a crossover



as i said, i hooked the speaker wires up from my home stereo to 2 pins of the enclosure - full range - normal volume



the ones i have are part number 941.645.049.10 - nokia speaker



by the way - my connector is 6 pin, of which only 5 have pins



here are pics:





[/quote]

Flash, that circuit board does indeed have an amplifier built into it (it is a very small and low powered amp though) and IS the optional M490 amplified type rear speaker enclosure. It would appear that by just wiring in the speaker input wires themselves like you did that the speaker signals are getting to the crossover part of the circuitry thru the unactivated part of the amp circuitry! That means that all of us with this type M490 system can do the same without any internal wiring mods...thanks for showing me that picture because that confirms what I suspected.

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[flash]

okee dokee - i wondered about that "chip" mounted to the case and connected to the board - that has got to be the tiniest amp i've ever seen - not even a wire that would indicate it was power



by the way - all are the same 18 or 20 gauge wiring



it does indeed seem to bypass everything - i have not yet scoped it or pushed it though to tell if there is anything in the way - my plan is to bypass all of that and use a different crossover entirely

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[Darryl]

[quote name='94SilverCab' post='46190' date='Jan 23 2008, 11:12 AM']So that means some day I'll have back speakers again? Woo hoo...



Also, I have a buzz in my passenger side door speakers, but only when I turn right...does that mean I own a reincarnated NASCAR?



Jay[/quote]





Yes, yes you will! We need to get together again anyway...



- Darryl

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[Darryl]

[quote name='tloof' post='46236' date='Jan 23 2008, 05:47 PM']Darryl,



Indeed, when you were working on Mark's '94 Cab you would have had to connect all four of the front speaker wires from his new radio to the brown 8 pin connector to get the signals to the front speaker system. But what about the rear speaker wiring, did you go thru the brown 8 pin connector or the red 10 pin connector of the M490 harness (did the brown 8 pin connector even have the 4 rear speaker wires in it like my Cab does?).



Also, did you wire up a bypass around the rear speaker enclosure amplifier circuitry, or do like Flash indicated he is doing by just wiring the rear signals to the preamp input connections with the other amplifier wiring disconnected? Just curious[/quote]



Let me pull my schematics and try to get my brain back around this. I do remember some very small wires that needed to be connected to (don't hold me to this) left, right and power. They were black, red, yellow IIRC. We had line level outputs on the head unit and when connncted directly to the speaker, only made a faint sound, but when we figured out to put 12V into it, the rear boxes came alive. The 5 pins on these rear boxes must get power from the front to wake up, but as flash mentioned, there are indeed two thicker guage wires that make the trip back there that you could use as + and - if you choose to remove the boxes in lieu of regular speakers and not have to do any re-wiring.



I think I may need access to a 94 Cab...Mark?, Jay? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



- Darryl

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[tloof]

[quote name='Darryl' post='46246' date='Jan 23 2008, 05:46 PM']Let me pull my schematics and try to get my brain back around this. I do remember some very small wires that needed to be connected to (don't hold me to this) left, right and power. They were black, red, yellow IIRC. We had line level outputs on the head unit and when connncted directly to the speaker, only made a faint sound, but when we figured out to put 12V into it, the rear boxes came alive. The 5 pins on these rear boxes must get power from the front to wake up, but as flash mentioned, there are indeed two thicker guage wires that make the trip back there that you could use as + and - if you choose to remove the boxes in lieu of regular speakers and not have to do any re-wiring.



I think I may need access to a 94 Cab...Mark?, Jay? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



- Darryl[/quote]

I see then, you actually used the rear preamp outputs from the new radio and then just activated the rear enclosure amp circuitry when you restablished the power and amp activation line signals back down the M490 sub-harness.



I wasn't considering using the large 2.5 gauge amp power wires to carry the radio amplified signals to the rear speakers like you just suggested simply because that same power & activation wiring is also tied to the front speaker amplifier below the passenger seat which I plan to use to power my subwoofer amp that I found that just barely fits in the same location under the seat. It is a Sony slimline 500W@ 2 ohm load mono channel amp when wired in parallel across two 4 ohm subwoofer speakers (250W/speaker), or a 290W/channel mono amp on a single 4 ohm subwoofer speaker. I also found some extremely slimline 10" subwoofer speakers (only 3 1/4" deep) that just fits onto the underside of each Cubby deck that with flat steel perforated covers mounted over them will still allow the top side of the Cubby deck area to be used to store baggage. Don't know how well it will all sound yet, or how buzzy it may be, but I think it will be OK as long as the subwoofer volume isn't turned up too loud? The added bonus is that the Cubby storage compartments can still be used to store small items (which is all I ever stored there anyway) since vthe subwoofer speakers are so shallow. The actual internal volume of the Cubby compartments are also just right for those slimline 10" subwoofers!

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[94SilverCab]

Darryl,



Would be happy to "donate " my car to the cause...all I need is 1) Time and 2) Dry Roads.



I think it's going to be a little while before we have both at the same time.



I do have Hershey on the calendar...



Jay

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