[Dubai944]

[quote name='chudson' timestamp='1331295973' post='122995']

Skill? You need to check history. Almost every open wheel driver who attemps the Nascar venue (and most unsuccessfully) gets out of the car, looks at the camera and states "That's the hardest thing I've ever done". They never say "With a little more practice I'll toast everyone here". But then again having watched the sport for decades I've seen those interviews - you guys haven't.

[/quote]



No doubt true, but probably only because the skills required to steer a tank like projectile constantly around an oval at very high speed surrounded by other projectiles only inches away from you are completely different from the skills required to race an open wheeler around a circuit. It's got to be the completely foreign nature of the experience that can't be related to 'normal' race driving that makes it hard.



Credit to the Nascar guys who are good at it though, they have great skill in what they do. I just admire the skills of top level road racing and rally drivers a lot more.The open wheel guys trying Nascar might think it's the hardest thing they ever did, but I seriously doubt they go away thinking it requires more technical driving skill than racing an open wheeler on a road circuit.



If there is one aspect of oval racing I do find interesting it is the subject of suspension setup to get cars to run left hand turns and banking quickly. A whole science in itself. I have learnt some good ideas on applying non symetrical cross weights and offset thrust alignment from oval racing books that can be applied on road circuits where you set up the car to turn slightly better in one direction than the other if there are a lot more right hand corners than left, for example.

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[Scott Collins]

Good points for NASCAR, from where it used to be. I'll have to do a John Cheney and say, "I meant it then, but I don't mean it now". I should be able to say I don't dig it without putting it down. Sorry if I offended any NASCAR fans.

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[968gene]

Point #1 Talladega Nights was not a documentary, it was a spoof. Ricky Bobby was a fictional character.

Point #2 Some of what has been posted here regarding hard working Southern Americans who enjoy oval track racing should embarass the authors. Change the sport and the players or fans and the comments become racist at best. Shame on all of you.

Point #3 Raise your hand if you have been in the pits during a NASCAR race....I have, its a complex and exciting world. I love it there, bored in the stands. Just like the diffeence between playing golf and watching golf.

Poin #4 Raise your hand if you have been inside of a top NASCAR Team's shop....I have. The technology is amazing and would rival any F1 team's shop. A confidentiality agreement keeps me from making any other comments here.

Point #5 Raise your hand if you know any current or past drivers...I do. Most of the names people toss around have been holding steering wheels since they were 6 years old. Those steering wheels were on go karts, just like your F1 heros. The skill level is very high.

Point #6 NASCAR teams have employed F1 folks to help design the fuel injection systems being used this year. The same is true for carbon fiber bodies coming in the future. Again technology is very similar.

Point #7 Speaking of technology, NASCAR doesn't use ABS, Traction Control, Assisted Gear Changing, etc. etc. Yet, amazingly, the cars perform very well on road courses. The "Driving Experience" cars are about 5 years back in technology and are way off the mark as far as HP and tune are concerned. But you should already have figured that out. By the way, the coin operated race car in front of Walmart isn't real either.

Point #8 While you all weren't looking, similar comments were being made over on the 911 based sites about us 968 owners.

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[flash]

lol - next we'll see somebody defending television wrestling as a sport, or porn films for the acting



takes all kinds i suppose. clearly there is a market for it. there is a market for pork rinds too.



ashamed. nope. but then i'm not exactly uthant either.

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[chudson]

Cloud - this time I'm with you. I fell in love with the sport in the 70s when what was on the track WAS what was in the showroom.



"Win on Sunday - sell on Monday"



I don't like what my sport has become - guarantees to start a race based on your points position and the cookie cutter cars distinguishable only by a manufacturer's logo. But as I said it's still my sport.



As for 968gene I have been with him on most of the adventures he mentioned. By the way, he had never been to a Nascar venue when we met many years ago. In fact he was probably as far from being a fan as one could be at that time. After the experience he converted quickly. And if not for his ideas, encouragement, help and support there would be no Nascar Champion trophy in my possession. Thanx again buddy!



Oh yeah - thanx Silvercab! Awesome! LOL

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[Cloud9...68]

Good points on all sides. I have to say, I'm surpised that there has been any support at all for NASCAR on this site, and the comments from this side have been illuminating. I guess my comments toward NASCAR fans has been based more on stereotype than observation, but unfortunately, most stereotypes have some core reasons for their existence.



I'm still amazed that this one particular series, with all of its quirks described here, has such an overwhelming following relative to all the other race classes. In other words, why NASCAR over F1, CART, American Lemans, and all the various prototype series out there? I can see it having an appeal to a certain percentage of the racing fan base, but I'm perplexed as to why it's so dominant.

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[Rap]

Cloud, most stereotypes have core reasons for their existence? At the risk of being mistaken for having any liberal type opinions or sentiment, I suspect you can look at any demographic group and find examples of any stereotype you can imagine. People are what they are. I live in Pennsyltuckie and am surrounded by stereotypes that I'm sure exist elsewhere.

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[chudson]

Cloud - even I have been amazed at what the sport has become. Gene and I once called up a buddy, arranged pit passes and hung out with the crew and the drivers at the track for days. Good luck with that now! I could probably get in the Pentagon easier.

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[robadams56]

I agree with almost all of the posts but have to admit that I like to watch Daytona, Talledega and Michigan simply for the high speeds and close quarters leading of course, to crashes that are spectacular. But most of all, I will watch on the rare occasions that they are running road courses. You get to see how experienced road racers like Boris Said can dominate the circle heads.



All that said, it is clearly a blue collar sport and I am not likely to set foot at a NASCAR event. There's nothing wrong with the blue collar segment as a group of people, but the behaviour of many; i.e. being completely sh**faced by breakfast and obnoxious is just not my gig.



IndyCar is ok and maybe a little more refined. But for my taste, give me Rolex 24, LeMans, and the other classic races for real road worthy cars. I hope to make it to LeMans for the 24 hour race....it has been a life long dream.



Oh, and Cloud, I am looking forward to your arranging some F1 tickets for me!!!!! lol

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Ashamed? Hell no. I guess maybe I should point out that I come from a long line of hillbillies, and southerners. Even a few moonshiners if you go back not too far. Personally, I dont care for alcohol at all. Making a NASCAR event pretty unappealing. My grandfather gave the UAW 35 years of his life. Im first gen in the north in my Family. Im 100% Dixie by blood, and was actually conceived in Alabama. I guess I dont consider making fun of my own people as "racist"...cause well, Im just making fun of myself. ROFL The south park bit twas all in good fun. Please, no one take it personal. Matt, and Trey make fun of everyone equally....even themselves. LOL



I actually have the same sentiments as chdudson. I was raised on NASCAR. Hell, my younger brothers name was almost Anthony Jason....as in AJ Foyt. My mother wasnt having it though. LOL Funny enough he likes NASCAR for the party, and goes to them once in a while. Go figure. I make fun of him for it all the time. When I was a child skoal bandit was my favorite car. Richard Petty my favorite driver. For me though, I discovered Porsche as a youngin with the birth of the 959, and I started to realize how behind the curve NASCAR(and the likes of which) was. Like Chudson said, the sport changed as I got older, and I personally drifted further away into being an enthusiast of road racing, and european SPORTS cars. I dont care how they justify it, or present it...nothing "stock" about a tube frame. All a gimmick these days, which frankly is how I view NASCAR as a whole. Just my $.02..which at our current inflation rate(and our lovely central banking system)....aint worth the copper its plated with.

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[flash]

lol - my grandparents were from the midwest, from missouri to oklahoma. about as "down home blue collar humble background" as you can get. not terribly intelligent or educated. very pedestrian. they did all the things i make fun of now. that probably explains why i feel the way i do, and why i didn't want to be them and aspired to be more. i did't think much of them then, and didn't want to be around them. we had nothing to talk about, and i was only 12. it's like asking a chess player to play checkers. still i also understand that it was how they were. i'm an opinionated arrogant elitist snob. i'm ok with that. others are out and out rednecks that think an erudite is something in a cave. i'm ok with that too. nobody is asking me to like everything they like. i'm not asking them to like everything i like.



as a side note: i love that you can say whatever you want here without anybody getting bent out of shape and picking fights, and nobody getting banned. it has never happened as long as we have had the site, and won't as long as things stay civil. that's what this site is all about, and why it's so much better than the rest. maybe we just have a higher class of more enlightened members?



i see already that the whimpering and whining has started elsewhere. figures. no worries though. every time something like that happens i get a flurry of new registrations. it just happened again. cool. i can't pay for that kind of advertising. thanks guys!

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[Rap]

Wait say it ain't so joe, opinionated arrogant elitist snob? Oh my God. Well I never. Lol

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[flash]

roflmao - yeah - see what going to college at 14 will do to you? makes you start raising the bar really early.

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[ds968]

The autocorrect feature changed flash's original post which actually said : see what going to college FOR 14 years will do, makes you start RAIDING the bar really early !

With that , I think I'll raid the bar myself, and have a sip of some ( elitist ) cognac . Cheers to all here, whether NASCAR or Curling fans , or whatever else floats your boat..

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[Rap]

Cognac eh, hope you had a ceegar with that! Who could have guessed that it not only took Flash 14 years to get thru college but that he had an alcohol problem that early! Lol. Perhaps going to school for too long is not good for oneself. Look how happy all those NASCAR types are. Ops sorry couldn't resist!

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[tamathumper]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1331343295' post='123037']

roflmao - yeah - see what going to college at 14 will do to you? makes you start raising the bar really early.

[/quote]



I know first-hand, and might I add it completely kills your basketball career <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



My father was a lobster fisherman on the coast of Maine, poor as dirt and I worked myself to where I am. Guilt and shame don't work on me that way either.

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[94SilverCab]

Wow, some very smart people here. I didn't start college until 17, but I did have my degree at 20.



I guess it would be hard to sell my story about my dirt poor Lawyer of a Father and chief surgical RN of a Mother story, but they were practical people and I had to learn about fast cars, fine dining, top shelf hooch and all the finer things in life on my own.



In the day, Trenton, NJ had a speedway that hosted a 200 mile stock car race, followed by a 200 mile indy car race. All I remember is the sound of the engines as the cars flew by, the Indy type cars especially. I never caught the bug for racing, but I sure had the bug for cars.



All I'm saying is that I don't watch NASCAR, not because I'm a snob, but because the race I saw in the bar last week had a bunch of big lumbering cars going 115 miles and hour and I thought "boy, I could do that"...whenever I see a Formula 1 race I am completely dazzled and I believe that the drivers are magicians for their abilities...for me it is entirely about how entertained I am, nothing more, nothing less.



JMO



Jay

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[Cloud9...68]

Jay,



The last paragraph of your post sums up my feelings exactly. In hindsight, I do regret some of the comments I've made toward the image of NASCAR fans - it was uncalled for. The thought behind this thread was my bewilderment as to how a series made up of huge cars based on models of a long bygone (and for good reasons) era, driven mostly in circles, could be far and away the most watched, and most reported on, type of racing. Especially when you compare it to the dazzling technology and obvious skill evident in so many other classes. Maybe the technology and skill are present in NASCAR, and are just not readily apparent to the casual observer, which I admit is all I have been, because frankly, it just looks plain dopey to me. But after reading Chudson's and 968Gene's (both of whom sound like intelligent guys) comments, maybe I need to open my mind and check out a race one of these days.

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[94SilverCab]

[quote name='968gene' timestamp='1331326760' post='123018']

Point #1 Talladega Nights was not a documentary, it was a spoof. Ricky Bobby was a fictional character.

Point #2 Some of what has been posted here regarding hard working Southern Americans who enjoy oval track racing should embarass the authors. Change the sport and the players or fans and the comments become racist at best. Shame on all of you.

Point #3 Raise your hand if you have been in the pits during a NASCAR race....I have, its a complex and exciting world. I love it there, bored in the stands. Just like the diffeence between playing golf and watching golf.

Poin #4 Raise your hand if you have been inside of a top NASCAR Team's shop....I have. The technology is amazing and would rival any F1 team's shop. A confidentiality agreement keeps me from making any other comments here.

Point #5 Raise your hand if you know any current or past drivers...I do. Most of the names people toss around have been holding steering wheels since they were 6 years old. Those steering wheels were on go karts, just like your F1 heros. The skill level is very high.

Point #6 NASCAR teams have employed F1 folks to help design the fuel injection systems being used this year. The same is true for carbon fiber bodies coming in the future. Again technology is very similar.

Point #7 Speaking of technology, NASCAR doesn't use ABS, Traction Control, Assisted Gear Changing, etc. etc. Yet, amazingly, the cars perform very well on road courses. The "Driving Experience" cars are about 5 years back in technology and are way off the mark as far as HP and tune are concerned. But you should already have figured that out. By the way, the coin operated race car in front of Walmart isn't real either.

Point #8 While you all weren't looking, similar comments were being made over on the 911 based sites about us 968 owners.

[/quote]



Hey Gene...if you don't like what's being said here you won't be banned, like some other places we know (sound familiar)...but if you don't like the owners or the membership here, you're not required to stay either.



(one of) the owner(s) here who "can make fun of and insult anyone he wants to, always argue with everone who doesn't bow down and worship his every thought, and market products that are protected by binding purchase agreements that prevent re-selling of parts or publishing real world performance data" is the same person who has put thousands of hours of his own time into this site for (almost) everyone's enjoyment...he is what he is, and that's is not going to change...and those of us that know him, like his "charm".

.

You might be a NASCAR fan, but try to show a little class...



Jay

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[951968]

This self-idolizing is starting to make me ill.

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