[S_Cal968]

Depending on who you go to for your smog - as soon as he see's that ultra-bitch'n header, he may look farther... On the other hand if the inspector doesn't care, no worries...

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[flash]

i'm just not sure that there is any carb cert on cats, or a requirement for any particular cat, beyond one being there, and it in good working order - i have had them changed before, and never seen a number on the cat itself, or a sticker to accompany the replacement, like there was on my intake for my jeep



that's an easy one to find out though, and something that pete and i have talked about

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[Greimann]

Some further reading here:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm



I don't mean to devolve this into a legal debate, but CA residents need to know the facts. The reality is that the 968 is such an odd bird that most smog techs won't know the difference.



Pete has done great things for the 968 and that message should not be diluted.



I would not be opposed to the simple job of swapping the system out for stock every two years to pass. Been there, done that.

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[flash]

i said this above - technically yes, but you would win the argumnent if you pressed it



having actually spoken to them myself, and not just looked at some website, which is designed to disuade you from such things in some blanket attempt to control everything (those government agencies just love to do that), i was told that the interpretation of these is pretty open, and they are really lookiing for people that are bybpassing smog equipment, such as older cars with air injection pumps - this is where header issues come in - since we have no such items, headers are open



there is no way for a smog guy to check a manufacturer list of a cat, so the reality is that if it is there, you are fine - in fact, i have not been able to find a list myself yet



technically, yes they could hang you up, but only until you called carb and they said it was fine, which they would do - 15 minutes standing there on the phone is a lot better than yanking that thing down every 2 years



i am not worried in the slightest about any of this - the only concern i might have is the tailpipe test, but since these cars burn so clean anyway, and it's a 200 cell cat (not a 100, which is known to cause problems), and the rest is essentialy the same as stock, there is no reason to suspect any issues there - i'm reasonable certain that i have only to make sure the car is good and warm when doing the test, to insure it passes- i've been through the smog game at least a dozen times now, and now, from painful experience, know the ins and outs - this is really not a problem



if everybody will remember, i was the one who brought all this up way back before pete even finished the prototype - i looked into it before i got mine - i do not want to be under the car playing the 2 year game, especially since there are now mobile spot check units in the major metropolitan areas

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[Greimann]

Government conspiracy theory aside, the only sure thing is the written regulation. If there is any uncertainty, then all the smog tech has to do is fail the visual and tell you to go to the referee for a waiver. Another test, another day.





My point is to illustrate to anyone reading this information is that it is not a slam dunk. I agree, a high probablility of passing, but not 100%

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[flash]

i get your point, but practical experience has been different - i was quite shocked, expecting exactly that kind of a problem, having been through that process on older cars



you can get carb on the phone, standing right there and get them to talk to him - surprisingly simple process if you have the patience with the phone tree - had to do it on the E30 for exactly the same reason - i stood my ground and insisted that he do it, and not just blow me off (imagine me doing something like that - lol) - i won the argument - they looked it up, saw what the car came with, he then looked to see that it was the same kind of thing, and that there was nothing missing - took a grand total of 1/2 hour and i was off with my cert



maybe i was lucky, but murphy usually rides in my trunk, so i tend to doubt it

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[S_Cal968]

The point I was making is the system doesn't look stock and I hope whoever decides to install it does a little research 1st. Typically a carb number is stamped onto the device, so the smog tech just checks his epa list to make sure it's acceptable. I noticed that the cat appears to be much smaller than stock, which I would think would raise a flag[?].

If someone happens onto a careless smog tech, this is a moot issue - no worries.



It's too bad they don't just check what comes out of the pipe instead of some widget being in place.

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[flash]

it is too bad they don't just go by the tailpipe test



as for carb numbers, i have yet to see those on replacement headers or cats - i did get a sticker with my k&n intake though - otherwise, there's really nothing for him to check - these cars don't have air injector pumps, so headers should be ok (remember, we have one stock, and there is no number on that either, and it sure looks a lot more homemade than this one)

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[S_Cal968]

Factory goodies never have carb numbers. Most techs should know that Porsche doesn't typically install polished parts.

I disagree, IMO the factory header doesn't appear to be homemade...

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[flash]

ok - well, it is exactly how we used to model headers - short pieces of tubes all welded together - the 3 header companies i went to locally all laughed at how cheesy it looked



anyway - i'm totally prepared to have another phone call with carb if anybody raises an eyebrow - they don't get to just say "no" - i make them prove why - since they won't be able to do that, i feel confident in getting past it - sure, preapproval stickers would be good, and i'm actually pretty sure it would be very easy to get one for these parts, but i'm sure it isn't necessary - after going through the process the first time with the E30, i never had an issue again - there were no stickers - i went to different stations all 3 times i had to get it smogged - all the other 2 did was stick a mirror under the car to make sure there was a cat - never looked for a number - never blinked at the header



i guess a certain amount of caviat emptor is appropriate, but really, this should not be a problem - i am going to do some homework though on how necessary it would be for getting preapproved stickers - since there are no controls being defeated, and no emmisions being altered, i do not anticipate any issues



right now though, i'm going back out to the pool - i hear another drink calling my name

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[S_Cal968]

This is why there are a number of aftermarket products that are designated as "off-road" use only. Actually getting a CARB approval is a long drawn out process. Many mfg's don't want to deal with the time & $$, so they tag it for O/R use...

Good luck...

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[flash]

yes, but every one of those that i have seen has been for a vehicle with some item bypassed or eliminated - for example, headers without the air injector inputs, egr valve location, etc - this is a very common thing for pollution controlled american stuff - we don't have any of that stuff to worry about



as far as the header is concerned, nothing is being eliminated, bypassed or changed - a header is a header - no emissions reading would change - approval should be a given



as far as the cat is concerned, i will have to look into that one, but so far, i have not seen any numbers for any cats - there are probably more controls and approvals on that one, but again, the lesser issue - since it isn't welded in, it could be swapped out easily enough

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[Greimann]

Actually the cat should be no concern. It looks like non-OBDII cats have a blanket exemption.



The header issue is pretty clear. EO# you in without argument. No EO, you have to plead your case, and possibly visit the referee.



Here is another fun page to play with.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...mquery.php

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[flash]

again, because there are no emissions control devices in our factory header, i think we would also get a blanket exemption on headers - this should be pretty easy to find out



when i get a chance, i'll call them again - i have the direct line of an agent there, and if he is still there, i'l be able to find this out in short order

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[S_Cal968]

I was referring to the cat - it's a emission control device. If you can get away with it, more power to you. I hope others that live in Calif. error on caution and see what's permitable before dropping the coin.

Not everyone has the time and/or resources to sort this out...

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[flash]

well, it appears that the blanket exemption there makes that one a non-issue - very cool - no time or resources required

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[astrojeff]

Fortunately, in Florida, we don't have any emission tests any more. No smog to speak of (no mountains).



Flash, did you get the ceramic or the steel header? Is there an advantage to the ceramic?





Jeff

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[flash]

ceramic - it should scavange better, and sure looks better

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