[flash]

ok - i'm pretty sure that everybody knows i've been going around and around on exhaust - i've done 2 systems in my car, looked at all of the others, and had been working on a new one - there are quite a few threads about exhaust systems lately too



well, time for an update



i now have the complete RS BARN system installed in my car - to find out how i got there, from where i started, you can read here:



http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtop...t=0&#entry16247



now, on to my impressions:



first, let me say that i was very impressed with the way things were thought out - the header was actually easier to install that stock system was to get out - there is actually more clearance in there now - the nuts were a lot easier to get to - i did the whole thing on jackstands too - everything went in nice and easy



i did a bathrooom scale check (stand on it, stand on it holding stuff - subtract a from b ) - the header and cat is 9 lbs lighter than the stock header and cat - the tailpipe and muffler, et all is 2.5 lbs lighter than my previous system, or 33 lbs lighter than stock - total loss from stock is 42 lbs!!!



i went for a couple of preliminary dashes up and down my canyon - i can see that this is going to take some getting used to - the engine runs very differently - it pulls better through the mids, the abrubt jump at 4400 is smoother, and it definitely revs more freely - i am looking forward to doing sume timed runs to see how it goes, but it feels noticeably better, so i am expecting good things



the sound is very different from mine - i had a lower throatier tone, but it pulsed more - this is a bit higher note, but much smoother - cruise is pleasant, idle is nice once it is warm - a touch raspy when dead cold - takes very little time for that to change though, so really not a concern - full throttle is NICE!



while i might personally have done a couple of things differently on the tail pipe bends and angles, to get things lined up a bit straighter and get the muffler up higher, they wouldn't have improved performance, and might possibly have cost a little - lessening one bend here would have made another bigger there - shortening one tube here would have made another longer there - stuff like that - i'm just really anal about centering and such - it's more a personal preference, and purely cosmetic thing, and it looks fine as is, so i'm leaving it alone - actually, i like this tip orientation better - pete worked out the straightest exhaust path possible, and it clearly works very well



oh - and it looks GREAT!!!



i'm glad i did it



everyone can see and hear it at the L.A All Euro Show in long beach sunday feb 26th at veteran's stadium - here's a link:



http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=1876



so, this means i will not be pursuing the exhaust project i was working on any time soon, cat back, dual, or otherwise



i'm exhausted

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[earossi]

[quote name='flash' date='Feb 20 2006, 06:38 PM']ok - i'm pretty sure that everybody knows i've been going around and around on exhaust - i've done 2 systems in my car, looked at all of the others, and had been working on a new one - there are quite a few threads about exhaust systems lately too



well, time for an update



i now have the complete RS BARN system installed in my car - to find out how i got there, from where i started, you can read here:



http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtop...t=0&#entry16247



now, on to my impressions:



first, let me say that i was very impressed with the way things were thought out - the header was actually easier to install that stock system was to get out - there is actually more clearance in there now - the nuts were a lot easier to get to - i did the whole thing on jackstands too - everything went in nice and easy



i did a bathrooom scale check (stand on it, stand on it holding stuff - subtract a from b ) - the header and cat is 9 lbs lighter than the stock header and cat - the tailpipe and muffler, et all is 2.5 lbs lighter than my previous system, or 33 lbs lighter than stock - total loss from stock is 42 lbs!!!



i went for a couple of preliminary dashes up and down my canyon - i can see that this is going to take some getting used to - the engine runs very differently - it pulls better through the mids, the abrubt jump at 4400 is smoother, and it definitely revs more freely - i am looking forward to doing sume timed runs to see how it goes, but it feels noticeably better, so i am expecting good things



the sound is very different from mine - i had a lower throatier tone, but it pulsed more - this is a bit higher note, but much smoother - cruise is pleasant, idle is nice once it is warm - a touch raspy when dead cold - takes very little time for that to change though, so really not a concern - full throttle is NICE!



while i might personally have done a couple of things differently on the tail pipe bends and angles, to get things lined up a bit straighter and get the muffler up higher, they wouldn't have improved performance, and might possibly have cost a little - lessening one bend here would have made another bigger there - shortening one tube here would have made another longer there - stuff like that - i'm just really anal about centering and such - it's more a personal preference, and purely cosmetic thing, and it looks fine as is, so i'm leaving it alone - actually, i like this tip orientation better - pete worked out the straightest exhaust path possible, and it clearly works very well



oh - and it looks GREAT!!!



i'm glad i did it



everyone can see and hear it at the L.A All Euro Show in long beach sunday feb 26th at veteran's stadium  - here's a link:



http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=1876



so, this means i will not be pursuing the exhaust project i was working on any time soon, cat back, dual, or otherwise



i'm exhausted

[right][post="16290"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





Flash,



For the dozen or so of us that bought Pete's system, sight unseen and in good faith, in the recent group buy...............it's good to hear that you are impressed with his system. I, and a few others, had been waiting to see the fruit of your labors, and it was only when I sensed that that would be months.............not weeks or days off, that I decided to look into Pete's system. I also relied on Brian Kimes feedback after installing the complete system as you did. Brian was equally as impressed with fit and finish and with the install........and he really felt a difference.



So, I and a few others seem to be on the right path!



I would have liked to have installed Pete's cat, since my OEM is old and probably slightly "clogged"; however, Pete indicated that his cat would only work with his header. So, do you know of any other cat unit out there that I could substitute to replace my OEM unit. The OEM unit is about $2K which seems ridiculously high.



Your comments would be appreciated.



Regards,



Ernie

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

yes, i think you are on the right path - in fact, mine was on its way to me while you guys were working out your deal - i had spoken to brian as well, and between that and the charts that pete had sent me, as well as many long conversations, i was comfortable with going ahead - i just didn't want to make any comments until i had driven it



yeah - the delay was going to be long - but then, i pretty much said that all along - that's also why i suggested the group buy - you guys did very well



i was prepared to continue with the other project anyway, but after pete's latest efforts, and more research, it just doesn't seem to be worth it - a cat-back doesn't make any real power anyway, and spending a lot of time and effort to smooth out a little hiccup in the curve, that was really only a couple of ft/lb over a couple hundred rpm, seems like stepping way over a dollar to pick up a dime



there are a number of cats out there - you will have to fab something together though to get it to work on the factory header - any exhaust shop could do it for about $300 plus the cat, and a day of your time standing there watching



OEM is 2k??? wow - looks like maybe i'll be selling mine - it only has 43k on it, and is in great shape



here's an idea - pete - how about whipping up a y pipe that goes from the factory header to your cat?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RS Barn]

I just spoke to my fabricator about that. At first I thought it would be too expensive, but we may be running into a group of cars that really have the need at a resonable cost. My header @$899 pluse cat $299= $1198. If I could come up with a high flow replacement cat with pipes @ $699 or lower it may be viable. Otherwise getting a replacement Header/cat and a performance gain may be a good alternative.

Pete

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[S_Cal968]

Bob or Pete,

What is the most obvious improvement designed into the RS header when compared to the factory unit? The factory header appears to be a nice design, [flow & quality]...

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Brian]

sounds like i should go into sales.... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

flash's post echo's my experience exactly.

installation is much much easier than removal of the old system.

and i should have mentioned the muffler angle, too. it does kind of look funny at first. appears to be sagging. i thought i had installed it wrong to begin with, but after looking at it further, noticed that it actually follows the body line of the bumper nicely.



it was also a tad strange only using 8 of the original 12 studs to install the new header. took me a minute to figure out that i hadn't forgotten something on the install.



i really liked that the new header was one piece instead of two pieces. easier to install and work around. much lighter weight, too.



pete's system has all slip fittings, too, except for one at the cat (where he has a nice copper gasket). i would imagine that it seals up much better than the original.



pete's tip is nicer than stock, too.



bob - those mid rpm's are a lot more fun now, aren't they? no more lag, too. i think there's still a slight boost, but it's higher in the rpm range and not quite as noticable.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

pete (socal) - i would not have thought that a 4 to 1 would have worked - it went against everything i knew and had been taught about header design on a normally aspirated motor, which said that a tri-y would be best for low and mid torque, and that a 4 to 1 would give high end but cost bottom



the problem is that this motor does not act entirely like a normally aspirated one - nor does it act like a turbocharged one - it's a bit in the middle, with characteristics of both - this makes sense because of the resonant induction intake manifold, which actually has 4 psi of boost



this explains a lot about why cat-back systems do what they do on this engine



bottom line - the danged thing works



brian - i removed the upper studs - looks better - and yes, the mids are more fun - i think the boost is still there, it just comes on earlier and more gradually, faking you into thinking it isn't there as much



the engine now behaves like there are more cylinders

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RS Barn]

The RS Barn Header is equal length tubing coming into a collector. Typical racing stuff. The stock header is two y pipes of unequal length that are made from several pieces each welded together. If you look up into Y pipes after cat removed you can see all the pieces with raises and bumps etc. No smmooth flow there!

From the outside the stock piece looks very well made. It is very sturdy. But it is clearly a mass produced piece.

Pete

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

no doubt the path is much smoother - comparitively, the stock unit looks cobbled together - no question the new header looks better - i always thought the stock system was the fall down spot in the engine bay's appearance



much better now

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Tom in Austin]

Can you elaborate on the change in sound vs. the stock system? Trying to figure out if my wife would complain about the car "being noisier" during normal driving, say cruising a relaxed 75 - 80 on the freeway?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Mark]

Hope it's not too bad as it is going on my wife's daily driver. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[ds968]

Re: sound. Spoke to Flash, and he said that as he passed by a Carrera GT he had to stop at the sight of its driver crying, to console him with the knowledge that he too can participate in the group buy and end the misery of driving that $ 500K car

which, by comparison to the 968's new exhaust system, sounds like a girlie-man vehicle <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Brian]

at cruising speed on the expressway, you won't notice the sound.

as soon as you get on the gas, it'll come back and you'll know.



at idle, you'll notice a little difference.



during hard accel is when it gets pretty loud. (a good loud. not like a mazda with a glass pack.)



hope that helps.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[PcarFan]

Any chance of recording of the exhaust? it would be nice to hear the B&B and the RS Barn exhaust to compare them

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Brian]

flash could describe it better than i could. he's got a good ear for this kind of thing.

i would say it's mid way between a glass pack and a mustang.

rumbles, doesn't rattle.

not as deep a tone as a muscle car. but close.

makes it sound more like a larger engine.



flash and i also have the full system, not just the cat back. so it's not really apples to apples to the b&b.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[ether_joe]

Hey guys this sounds really exciting. will probably be a '07 upgrade for me.



I opened up my vario last weekend and there is a bit of wear, nothinig extreme or chipped teeth, so I'm thinking I just get the RS Barn performance cams when time time comes. Prolly do the exhaust and everything. . . looking forward to hearing Flash's machine on 4/1. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[ds968]

[quote name='ether_joe' date='Feb 22 2006, 02:43 PM']. . looking forward to hearing Flash's machine on 4/1.  <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

[right][post="16399"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





and you'll also hear the BB catback ( mine ) on 4/1, so you'll have a comparison of two different tunes.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[ether_joe]

[quote name='ds968' date='Feb 22 2006, 08:59 PM']and you'll also hear the BB catback ( mine )  on 4/1,  so you'll have a comparison of two different tunes..  <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

[right][post="16432"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



can't wait!



I will need you guys to help me stay disciplined with my budget. I told myself no major ($200+) mods this year, I have to wait till 07. No impulse modding for me <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[S_Cal968]

Does the cat have a carb number? Here in Cali, since the cat is considered an emissions device, if I recall it requires a carb number... This is why cat-back systems are popular here.



I'm wondering if they went with a Y design because of the firing order [1 3 4 2] and the scavaging effect[?]. True equal length runners would be nice.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

i have never seen a carb number on a cat, nor had anyone do anything but stick their head under there to see if there was one - i'll check that out though

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.