[Cloud9...68]

The racing forum hasn't been terribly active lately, but if any racers are still out there, I'm wondering what the consensus (if such a thing is possible) is about the vast array of data acquisition systems. I'm thinking such a system would be helpful in pointing out where I could be going faster, and give me insights as to how my driving could improve.



I have some specific criteria, though. The system I choose must:



1. Provide feedback as close to real-time as possible. I'm not interested in something that records a ton of data, that's only accessible by playing it back using their software which I've loaded onto my computer, as it could be days before I have time to pore through it.



2. Not be too complicated or finicky



3. I'm not interested in gathering a ton of information about my car, like the temperature of every fluid in the dern thing - I have gauges for that. I'm only interested in information that I can efficiently translate into lowering my lap times.



4. Be priced reasonably - if I can't afford it, it won't do me any good.



From searching the web, Traqmate seems to be the closest thing to an industry standard. Does anyone here use them, or know people who do? In looking at their web site, it's not obvious to me that the feedback their systems provide is real-time, though.



Don't laugh, but from my brief perusal of the different systems, the one that's most attractive to me is the G-tech RR. I like the way it seems to have a simple, readable display that breaks the track down into its segments, and gives a simple image of a thumbs up or thumbs down sign if you're taking the segment at a good speed, or if you're too slow, during your actual session. And then of course you can still download your session to your computer and play everything back. But it seems to me that a combination of a G-tech RR (which I saw as low as $239 on eBay) and a Go-Pro camera, would give me what I need for a reasonable price, and I could always sell the G-tech when I'm ready to move on to something more sophisticated. Thoughts?

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[pmason]

I have the Traqmate, the older one, not the new one with the fancy dash unit (TraqDash) So it has a simple dash readout. It collects a fair amount of data with just with the GPS and gyro sensor. I did add the TraqDataII as I have the ChaseCam to sync the video, also hooked up the tach, and I need to hook up the steering angle sensor, throttle position sensors I have. With the simple dash I can see how my lap is doing +/- also what my time is of that lap. It has been within 1000th of the transponder time at the track.

Looking at the data you can see where you are braking and accelerating, see where you can brake later, what you did one lap over another to see what worked or didn't work for a faster time, etc, there is a pretty good book to start out looking at data, "Making Sense of Squiggly Lines: The Basic Analysis of Race Car Data Acquisition".

Many of the newer data acquisition units out there that have the video and data all in one.

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[Rap]

I had an instructor who was a code writer use one with me. He had the devil of a time to make it work quickly. The data it produced however did show that corner entry and exit speeds increased over runs even though he hadn't been able to discern it. It gave means and other variables that were way too complicated for me. It was able to determine when you were on throttle and breaking. No I don't remember the name. This man was Russian and I had a devil of a time understanding him as it was! The info was useful and I like Cloud wonder if there is something easy to use. Especially for a Luddite like me!

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[JWahlsten]

A buddy of mine, Cris Brady uses a data acquisition system in his 944 racecar. I will ask him what he is using. It's pretty simple, tracks sectors with GPS, and seems user friendly.

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[tamathumper]

I just downloaded RaceChrono for Android last week - it also measures acceleration and braking, and is a beautifully done piece of software - it shows your performance statistics on an overlay of the actual track (from Google Maps or similar), in color-coded tracks. You can view your speed data as a line underneath the map, too.



It doesn't tie into the car as far as I know, though.

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks for the responses. Knowing the way my brain works, what I really need is a combination of immediate feedback as to what I'm doing while I'm driving, something I can review, hopefully with a trackside instructor, as soon as I finish my session, and then the ability to study my runs in detail on my computer later on. And yes, I definitely need both video and data. Being such a novice at this stuff, I'm having a hard time figuring out to what degree the various systems do all of this, but my general impression is that most of them focus on the after-the-fact analysis, and while that's certainly a critical feature, I want to make sure whatever system I end up going with provides me information I can use during the actual session.



pmason - does the Traqmate do all of this, or does it primarily focus on the after-the-fact analysis? And thanks for the recommendation for the book - I'll have to check it out.

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[pmason]

So I can't speak to the new TraqDash, but I know it gives more heads up info on the dash, shift lights, rpm if you hook it up, etc. On mine I just have the lap time and a bar on the bottom telling me if I'm doing better or worse, it does indicate which is your fastest lap. Once done you can quickly review the lap times, but to really look at the data you hook up the computer which downloads quickly, pull up the graphs etc, you can easily do that between sessions. Video takes longer to copy, at least mine its on a Compact Flash card that I just plug into the computer. If your looking to overlay the data on the video that will take time, it needs to process really a new video stream.

I believe you are able to download the software and maybe view other peoples data just to see what you will see.

There was an article a while back in the Grassroots Motorsports magazine about using data and it was showing the Traqmate, another source of info.

Traqmate also has a forum on their website that might be helpful, I know you can download the manual.

I think ChaseCam also has an all in one unit, video & data, there are a few others. Traqmate is pretty simple to review the data with their software, they were one of the first to simplify it.



Oh, I was in your neck of the wood last weekend, kind of Houston, I ran in the 24hrs of Lemon's race, first time racing at night that was interesting.

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[pmason]

Here is a picture of my setup, traqdata setting on top of the traqmate base unit, the chasecam unit is just in front of that, see the dash unit just right of the dash. Ignore the red wires, I'm starting to install a radio setup.

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[Rap]

Did you delete your ac?

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks for the photo and explanation - a removable racing steering wheel is definitely on my wish list - always something to drain the bank account lol.



You sound pleased with your setup overall. Traqmate is definitely a popular setup, and I like the fact that it seems to meet my criteria of giving a combination of realtime info you can use during the session, and reviewable data. I don't care too much about things like rpm (isn't that what the tach is for?), shift lights (I only have to upshift once on the track I currently drive on), etc. - I only care about understanding where I'm slow.



How does your setup know what an "ideal" lap is supposed to look like? Does it only compare your lap times to each other, or can you import the data from faster, more experienced drivers to show you where you're slow compared to the optimum? Thanks again - you've given me lots of great info.

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[pmason]

Rap, yes the whole HVAC is gone, there is a dash bar (cage) under the dash now. I have a cool shirt to stay cool :-)



Cloud9, yes, so there is a function where it takes all your laps and makes a hypothetical lap but that is a misleading some times as some corners your going to have to give up some and it it's always trade offs. Yes, you can load other peoples' or even your previous sessions to compare laps, best to find the best lap as you don't want the whole session on the screen at the same time, too much noise. Like many will say, focus on 1 or 2 corners, note what you try so when you go back to the data you can see which idea was able to carry more speed through the corner or set up the next straight the best, etc.

Here is an example, this is my fastest lap at Road America (2 years ago) and this last year, I just haven't got back to the same level after building the new car.

Blue is this year, Red is 2011, you can see I'm caring much more speed through some of the corners, you can see my braking differences, etc. The tach is so you can see your RPM's in the data, also it will use it to figure out what gear you are in.

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[pmason]

Someone just posted a review of SmartyCam all in one on R.L., just another one to look at:

http://forums.R.L..com/rennforums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/779936-smartycam-hd-review.html

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[JWahlsten]

I got an e-mail back from my buddy Cris. He likes his, but would look at their new dash setup.



"I'm using the Racepack GX2. And while I haven't really followed the DataAcq market real closely, I'm satisfied with my system. It still seems to be comparable with the other systems out there. If I was going shopping today I would give consideration to their IQ3 system which is the next version, but self contained. I like the dash display. If I had lots of money, I'd buy just the dash and add it to my system as the core box is more than enough for what I'm doing."

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks, Joel. This sure can turn into a complicated endeavor, but the more I read, the more I'm convinced that there is real value in a good data acquisition system, if you're willing to put the time into understanding how it works, and how to interpret what it's telling you. I've already made massive improvements to my car - now I feel like it's time to do the same with my driving, and it looks like one of these systems could help out with that.



Here's a link to a forum discussing the comparison between the Traqmate and the Racepak G2X:



http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5107



In particular, a post by Hornswoggler is very well-written and informative.

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[JWahlsten]

Good stuff. We had a professional driving coach go through some data analysis at an event I went to last year. I don't know what system he was using, but reading the data is a skill in itself. He could tell you what understeer, oversteer, and each driving error looked like. Pretty cool actually.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yeah, definitely very cool. To me the appeal is that once you get out of the beginning run groups, you seldom have an instructor riding with you, so you run the risk of not being aware of your mistakes. It seems that a good data acquisition can be a useful tool in helping you continue the climb up the learning curve, if you're willing to learn how to use it properly. I'm not in a rush to go out and buy one (I think I can make plenty of improvement for now from just getting lots of seat time, once my injured back heals), but maybe by the end of this year or early next year, I'd like to look into getting my hands on a cost-effective system.

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[Rap]

Cloud, I just received," Making Sense of Squiggly Lines." Probably worth the read. I'm in the same boat or at the same juncture with regard to utilizing info. Even sensing a better run doesn't much help over a period of laps and days. It's just too much to remember. Gopro has been somewhat useful to me. I used it this summer and it helped!

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[Cloud9...68]

Rap,



Cool, let us know what you think of the book after you've read it.



I'm the farthest thing from a gadget person - more of a Luddite, actually (I don't even own a smart phone) - but realtime monitoring of your car as you're driving it on the track seems to be one of those rare "gadgets" that even I can see the usefulness of.

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[flash]

i can think of maybe 2 drivers you'd find out there in these kinds of events that might be able to benefit from one of these gadgets. the rest are going to spend too much time thinking about details, and not enough time learning to feel g forces, know what they mean, learning to feel the car, and learning to gauge speed and distance by eye.



i think these things are a lot like golf gadgets. they only serve to line the pockets of some geek, and meanwhile screw up your swing. it took me years to get out of my head the crap i learned in a golf book. i was always thinking too much about stance, grip, elbow position, yada yada. i went from a smooth natural swing, to loking like i was hacking at weeds.



the data may be helpful, but you first have to understand the physics at play, and the feel of the car. going fast around a track is not about data. it's about reacting to your ass, and being smooth. data can't teach you that.



spend the money on more seat time. worry about data when you are in the top 3 in the fast group.

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[Rap]

Flash I agree. As I said before, I can't see using the info while driving. Afterwards it might be a different thing. My point is although you might feel you have gone faster it is difficult to know. Last week my instructor was watching my rpm's for me to make sure I didn't go over 6000. I've gotten used to knowing when I'm close but I was losing some speed by misjudging the sound of the rpm's near 6000. One could spend too much time futzing around with this stuff but at the end of the day when your back in your room it beats watching porn, I mean religious shows!

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