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LWFW on the way
#21

as i remember, the springs are in the way by a long shot



pretty sure the guys at both spec and fidanza tried that too
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#22

The bolts have been modified and we had to slightly modify the clutch disk and part of the flywheel. Everything lines up with enough clearance (assuming the worst case scenario). I think we'll be up and running later today.



Out of curiosity (because I never even asked), what does Fidanza recommend to use for a clutch?
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#23

stock



i am more than a little concerned about the modifications - having seen what happens when a clutch assembly grenades (a buddy lost his leg) i am not comfortable with this - none of the disks i looked at were going to work safely - either the springs were in the way, or the alignment tower was wrong - what exactly did you do?



added bummer - now that you have modified the flywheel, you probably get to balance it again (unless you hadn't done it yet)



if you had, out of curiousity, how far off was yours? mine was 11 grams (that's huge) - my pressure plate was another 7
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#24

On the disk, we have to take a little off of the outside diameter on the "alignment tower." Not really sure what that part is called. It, in no way, will effect the integrity of the disk. The only problem we have is the way the pilot just slides into the flywheel.... seems sort of chicken sh*t if you ask me.
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#25

not really worried either about minor mods to the alignment tower, but if there are other mods to the spring area, or if you are removing material from the flywheel, or from the heads of the bolts, that would be a real concern



have you actually bolted it together and torqued it down yet? the other problem i have found with the spring disks is clearance of the release bearing - it CANNOT be allowed to touch that at any time
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#26

I didn't have time to reply yesterday, but we did get everything in place and the new clutch / lwfw is working great. We had to make 3 different modifications to make it all work. A. we had to take some outside diameter off of the 951 clutch disk alignment tower. B. we had to shave 45 degree cut on the flywheel bolts (not anywhere close to affecting the integrity of the bots, very little material was removed and none was near the base of the bolt head). C. On the flywheel itself, there is a shoulder that sticks up well past the pilot bearing. We had to shave the shoulder down to the bearing itself (20/1,000ths above the bearing). Obviously, we have the proper equipment to do this work.



None of these mods, in any way, effect the integrity of the entire system.





Feedback on the lwfw itself:



This is the way this car should have been set up in the first place. I have NO excess vibration with this set up. At idle, there is NO chatter. When taking off and at very low rpm's, I do have a slight moment of chatter....it's there and gone. Under normal driving, I hear it slightly when i take off and I don't hear it again until I stop and take off again. Performance wise, it does rev quicker. It's much more responsive and it makes heal / toe down shifting much easier.



This is not a "bolt on" mod. If you or somebody you know has the ability to do this machine work I would highly recommend doing this. I know others also use the stock 968 clutch disk. I would not recommend this either. Even if the disk holds up for a while, it will put a lot of stress on other parts in the drivetrain.



I was out of my car for two weeks. It was a nice friday afternoon gift. In fact, i'm going out for a drive now.
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#27

i suspect the chatter is contact with the release bearing outer retaining surface - this is what i am dealing with now on the new disk - it was not immediatley evident that this was happening, as the center portion rotated freely, and all indications were that the release bearing was free



a crush test though clearly showed contact, which would result in noise (chatter) when engaging from a stop, and a possible very brief noise or buzz between gears
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#28

[quote name='flash' post='42456' date='Oct 16 2007, 06:36 PM']the factory disk does not stand up well to the fidanza - 12lbs is very harsh when you shift quickly - i fragged mine at about 25k - coming out of turn 12 and onto the big straight at P.I.R. i banged from 2nd to 3rd at about 7.5k and blew it into tiny little pieces



i have a real fix in the works - should know all the details by tomorrow[/quote]





Flash,

How are those clutch disk prototypes coming along? Have you arrived at a good solution?
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#29

prototype number 4 is in and tested - one more small change and i think we're there



should be all done and up by the end of next week - sema and then turkey-day kind of got in the way a bit
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#30

will have prototype number 5 done sometime next week - will then go back into a car for final testing - i think we're going to be there - woohoo
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#31

I am really looking forward to this one Flash.

GL on the cab search.
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#32

Flash,



Can you tell us a little about what you are trying to do? The mods we made to the 944 turbo clutch disk and the flywheel were simple and it works flawlessly.
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#33

I'm sure this will be a very popular item, as our 13-16 year-old DMF's give up their ghosts. I'm sure many of us are anxiously awaiting to see the final result.
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#34

krameric - i think you need to look more closely at your disk - i am pretty sure that there is not any tolerance for wear, and that there is interference you are not aware of - these were things that we had to look at very carefully in getting a disk that will work over time



both spec and fidanza said they have tried that disk and determined that it would not work safely



i would be happy to look at what you've done - certainly i have no desire to reinvent the wheel, but modifying the flywheel, or the crank mounting bolts is not an option, as the full tenth of an inch that would need to be removed to accommodate the friction disk wear is not safe



that is why we had to design an entirely new disk



heck, even choosing the right springs has been a challenge
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#35

We checked --- and rechecked. At full wear, there is enough clearance. As far as the bold modification, there is just a little material removed from the outer corner of the bold. We knocked them down to a 45 around the edge and did not have to shave down the entire head. With all of the proper equipment these tolerances should be fairly easy to measure and mods somewhat simple to do.



What does Fidanza recommend to do?
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#36

they recommend the stock disk only



i'm pretty sure there is no way there will be any clearance after wear if you had to remove material off of the bolts to keep them from hitting in the first place - as the disk wears, it will get closer to the bolts - being at an angle only exacerbates that condition
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#37

We have a full machine shop, plenty of experience and we're 100% confident in our set up. Our tolerances were measured assuming there is NO clutch material left.
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#38

doesn't make sense that it would be that easy, when both spec and fidanza tried the same thing, and ran into trouble - i looked at that disk too, and did not see it working



i'll have one sent over and check it again
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#39

Krameric,



Now that you've lived with your lwfw with spring-centered clutch disk for awhile, could you please give us an update on how it drives? Is the rattle at ~2200 rpm really gone, or just subdued? And how's the overall drivability? Thanks.
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#40

Cloud,



Drivability is fine. Take offs require a bit of getting used to, but nothing too bad. Rev matching is easier / much more precise. I get a little chatter around 1,900 rmps but I'm rarely at that engine speed and I don't hear it during take offs. So on a daily basis, I hardly ever hear a difference from the stock set up. Overall, I love it and wouldn't go back.
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