[wjk_glynn]

Just an FYI...



KW has been providing a V3 suspension setup for the 944/968 for a few years. Their website lists the following part numbers and list prices as of this morning...



"V3" setup on the 944 and 968 are:

* 944 = 35271010 ($2,795)

* 968 = 35271009 ($2,795)



I noticed today that they're now providing a Clubsport setup. The p/n and price is:

* 968 = 35271809 ($3,695)



If you shop around, you can typically get a 25% discount off the list price



Karl.

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[Darth Vadar]

Has anyone here used the KW V3 coilovers ? I am thinking of something for DE events, not full track duty, and do not want to pull the rear torsion bars...



Would enjoy any info on these... or similar setups...



Thanks

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Yeah, im running the V3 on my 86'. I paid 2200. They are great. You'll have to reindex the torsion bar though. They perform when you need them to, and are very comfortable when cruising. Unlike the covered wagon feel of bilsteins for example.

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[RS Barn]

I disagree with you knock of Bilsteins. Iv'e set up many cars with "My package" which includes Dual springs similar to KW. I actually like my Bilstein packager better due to ability to change springs, especially on rear. KW are as is and you can't change springs .I think tenders are too soft and really have little effect. I've worked on several cars with KW V3 and have a pretty nice damping set up. they just aren't superior to Bilstein or Moton

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[flash]

the 2 cars out here that i've driven with bilsteins, to me, both rode very harshly in the rear. 1 is a cab. the other is a hardtop.



that being said, they aren't alone in being harsh, and pretty much anything gas i've been in has been that way



i just don't like gas in the rear, but i'm old and like a smoother ride now than i used to

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[RS Barn]

Ok KW's are incredible and anthing Flash has touches is better

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[SHA-JR968]

[quote name='Darth Vadar' timestamp='1317485482' post='116141']

Has anyone here used the KW V3 coilovers ? I am thinking of something for DE events, not full track duty, and do not want to pull the rear torsion bars...



Would enjoy any info on these... or similar setups...



Thanks

[/quote]





I have the KW V3 installed. Driving the car 50% track, 40% transfer to track and the rest for occasionally commuting.



For me it is the perfect set up on the 968, not to stiff with an acceptable remaining comfort for everyday use.

Improved ma time on the Nordschleife by one minute immedeately after installation with an even more safe feeling.



I have driven so far

- original standard 968 set up

- original 968 CS (non M030) set up

- original 968 springs with Bilstein B6

- KW V3



Best for me is the KW V3, second Bilstein B6. If I would not use the car on the track, maybe i would go for B6.

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[flash]

this is all extremely subjective.



some people don't care about the bumps, or care in varying degrees. i don't like anything jarring whatsoever, but that is not always the way i felt. but, that's why i don't like gas. the preload charge has always led to a jittery and jarring ride. i don't like the bilsteins i have experienced, because i don't think they are valved correctly for the springs on them, and there is no adjustment. i haven't been in all of the different models though.



it's not all that different with the M030 stuff either though. i really don't like that either.



that is not to say that somebody else doesn't think they are the cat's meow.

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[SHA-JR968]

Maybe my English is not good enough, but I do not understand what you would like to say ...



Just tell me which suspension is good, and which is not.



Experience on road/track would be appreciated ...

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[flash]

it's just not that easy. it depends too much on things like; what somebody prefers, their driving style, the tracks you are running on, and their budget.

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[RS Barn]

Bob has very little track time in 968's so I'm not sure where his knowledge comes from?

I would say KW is possibly best combination street track as delivered. Ride can be set quite complient for not so great surfaces.

IMO Bilstein is way better pure track due to "Digressive Valving", Strut shaft size (44mm vs 14Mm) and ability to change springs.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

[quote name='RS Barn' timestamp='1317601309' post='116215']

Bob has very little track time in 968's so I'm not sure where his knowledge comes from?

I would say KW is possibly best combination street track as delivered. Ride can be set quite complient for not so great surfaces.

IMO Bilstein is way better pure track due to "Digressive Valving", Strut shaft size (44mm vs 14Mm) and ability to change springs.

[/quote]

Agreed, for a pure track car, bilstein.....then again the clubsport line may be competition. The KW v3 is the best of both worlds, which was my point really. The bilsteins are more jarring comparatively. Ive driven both. It is very subjective, and depends on your specific use, and likes/dislikes. Im very happy with the v3 and will be buying them again on the 93'. As I said, they perform when you need them to, and are more civil for everyday driving on the street just cruising. The bilsteins probably do perform better than the v3 on the track. Wouldnt surprise me. Thats what the variant 3 line is for, street, and track use. The v3's are not designed to be dedicated track set up. They have a product line for that too IIRC. Just my 2 cents.

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[flash]

i really HATE the bilsreins



i've got enough track time in the 968, and a ton of track time in other cars, to know what works and doesn't on the STREET



it takes very little track time to determine that a particular setup is pure "crap" for street, regardless of what it does on the track. it has nothing at all to do with track. a track car should never be taken on the street. there is NO perfect solution for both, and anybody who says otherwise is trying to sell you something.



the bilsteins i have experienced, were they on a car i had dedicated for primarily street, would end up in the garbage can in as little time as it would take for me to remove them, if i were concerned with street civility. they may be great on the track for a minimal setup car, but they are HORRIBLE on the street, and force you to brace yourself against every bump.



i'll match my hydraulic konis and carreras up against any other street setup any day, and am willing to back it up with my own money.



come on over. i can have you drive one car with the bilsteins from pete, with his recommended spring setup, and mine with my setup, and let you be the judge. it has nothing to do with bracing, swaybars, or springs either. you won't get out of the complex i live in without feeling the difference, let alone down the road. decide for yourself. it won't be hard.



i have extremely little experience with the KW setup, but would venture the guess that, unless it were adjustable bump and rebound, that you are just as screwed with those as anything else that is similar.

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[mrmister]

I have the bilsteins from Pete, been very happy with them on the track. Car handles great and people compliment the setup all the time. That being said, the ride on the street is harsh. I don't drive the car on the street much anyways so it isn't a problem. Figure out what you want to use the car for and go from there.

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[flash]

yup

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[Monstrous4Banger]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1317612680' post='116234']

i really HATE the bilsreins



i've got enough track time in the 968, and a ton of track time in other cars, to know what works and doesn't on the STREET



it takes very little track time to determine that a particular setup is pure "crap" for street, regardless of what it does on the track. it has nothing at all to do with track. a track car should never be taken on the street. there is NO perfect solution for both, and anybody who says otherwise is trying to sell you something.



the bilsteins i have experienced, were they on a car i had dedicated for primarily street, would end up in the garbage can in as little time as it would take for me to remove them, if i were concerned with street civility. they may be great on the track for a minimal setup car, but they are HORRIBLE on the street, and force you to brace yourself against every bump.



i'll match my hydraulic konis and carreras up against any other street setup any day, and am willing to back it up with my own money.



come on over. i can have you drive one car with the bilsteins from pete, with his recommended spring setup, and mine with my setup, and let you be the judge. it has nothing to do with bracing, swaybars, or springs either. you won't get out of the complex i live in without feeling the difference, let alone down the road. decide for yourself. it won't be hard.



i have extremely little experience with the KW setup, but would venture the guess that, unless it were adjustable bump and rebound, that you are just as screwed with those as anything else that is similar.

[/quote]



Im not saying its perfect, but best solution Ive found so far. I took the koni yellows off to put the KW on, and notice a difference. Next time Im in LA, Ill let you know. I am genuinely curious.



I didnt know it was a product RS barn stocks, and wasnt meant to be a knock. I was just using them as an example, because I have had the opportunity to compare the two. No one "sold" them to me. I looked for feedback online, and looked at specs, etc. I found the lowest advertised price on line, and then called autoanything and they beat the lowest advertised price, and they were dropped shipped from Germany, because no one had them in stock in North America. I did discuss it with the shop that installed them, and thats when they let me drive 951 3.0 16v powerhaus turbo with bilsteins to see what I thought. When I go to my local shop they dont tell me what to run, I tell them what I want, they give me their input on the matter, and then they do what I decide on. I usually source my own parts, and have them sent there. There is no sale in the matter for them. I sold myself on them, several people did try to sell me konis. and bilsteins, and motons though, when they figured out they didnt have what I wanted in stock. Definitely wouldve been faster, and easier to just go with whats stocked over here.



I agree, it depends what you use your car for, but personally, I wouldnt street a set of bilsteins. I would the v3 all day long, and drive it to the track on the weekend. I need to get my car out to LA, Ive always been curious what youd think of my suspension setup, Flash. The v3 does have adjustable bump, and rebound actually.

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[Mark]

No track experience at all with the 968 but I love my KW V3 on the street.

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[Eric_Oz_S2]

[quote name='RS Barn' timestamp='1317513436' post='116153']

I disagree with you knock of Bilsteins. Iv'e set up many cars with "My package" which includes Dual springs similar to KW. I actually like my Bilstein packager better due to ability to change springs, especially on rear. KW are as is and you can't change springs .I think tenders are too soft and really have little effect. I've worked on several cars with KW V3 and have a pretty nice damping set up. they just aren't superior to Bilstein or Moton

[/quote]



Pete,



Are you referring to the Escort Cups?



Do you have any experience with the KW Clubsport setup? They are a bit stiffer (540 front springs), more agressive damping.

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[RS Barn]

As I said, the KW's are a better street/de combo although very soft for DE.. You will never be able to have a comfortable street ride on a truly dedicated Track set-up. Bilsteins aren't crap. What they lack to be a "comfortable" street ride is adjustability. The Turbo Cup struts and shocks were designed for progressive springs that aren't available any more. Dual springs help but have a harsher transition. Porsche and Bilstein have a tradition of using Digressive valving to enhance turn in while using a softer overall spring rate.

Has anybody been in a gen 2 boxter. They handle like a dream but have a very harsh ride.

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[pure&simple]

I have Pete's Bilstein setup. As was mentioned above, it may not be right for you if you never venture onto the track. I wanted to be fast at DEs and I asked Pete for a setup that would (1) haul ass on the track (2) not empty my bank account, and (3) have an acceptable ride on the street. I am very pleased with the track performance - I routinely catch and pass 911s and Caymans in my run group despite them having a more modern suspension and a higher power-to-weight. That, despite knowing I have much to improve on as a driver.



As for ride comfort, the combination of the 200lb tender springs in front with the torsion bar + helper spring in the rear soaks up small bumps easily and feels glass smooth, very similar to a progressive springs. The ride is harsh over larger bumps, which I believe is due to the Bilsteins internally not being able to move oil quickly enough to soak up the bump. Higher-end shocks (e.g. Motons) have an internal blow-off valve to solve this exact problem, but they were at a much higher price point.



So taking all things into account, I feel the digressive Bilstein setup is a good compromise of performance, value, and ride quality. I have no doubt there are more comfortable options available at the same price point, but suspect that none perform as well on the track.

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