[Scott Collins]

   



This is what the OE castor blocks (18 years old) look like - little bit of age, hard driving, various fluids leaking, etc.... The rubber was so degraded that if I wanted to, I could pull the metal sleeve right out of there with no effort.



Now those tired old blocks are in the bin and Elephant Racing sealed mono-ball units are bolted up. I'll need an alignment, but for the moment, the car drives just as before, straight down the road.



Night and day difference. Should have done this years ago. Now I've got to sure up the rear sway bar and get all of that rubber out of there as well.



Cheers everyone!



-Scott

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[flash]

go out and buy a lottery ticket NOW!



seriously, if your blocks were that bad, and you replaced them and it doesn't pull at all, you are the luckiest guy i know - it's nearly impossible to guess at where to land them and have the car not pull one way or the other - as a check, on a level and straight road, a car should run straight down the road for at least 1/4 mile without starting to move out of the lane - if you got those things in there and got it right by eye, that's awesome - it takes me 2-3 shots on an alignment rack



this is definitely something everybody should be looking at by now - those castor blocks are toast, and you wouldn't believe how many cars i see with ones that are almost as bad

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[Scott Collins]

Flash-



Yah - fee like I should head to Vegas and hit on a 12 and win! Or maybe craps and start laying big $$ on 12 at 30-1. How can I lose?



Seriously, I just finished driving about 350 miles this weekend, up and down the PA and NJ TPKs to a gig, and I kid not, the car went straight down the road. Took her up to about 95mph when I had some line of sight and no pings on the Cobra.



Like I mentioned, the problem now is that the front end response is SO precise and immediate, that the back end responds a a moment later in hard cornering, seems to squat a bit, then bounce back, seemingly wanting to trade ends. Oversteer, big time.



I think that I will install the Racer's Edge sway bar mounts to eliminate the deflection of the bar. I figure I'll do that, see what the result is, then add the drop links if need be? What do you think?



-Scott

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[flash]

the mounts won't really change that all that much - you'll get a little bit of anti-roll improvement, but not much



your member details show that you have M030 sways - what is the rear bar setting? what are the rear shock settings?



frequently people set the rear shocks too stiff, hoping to gain some rear stiffness, and don't realize that this doesn't help at all in a sustained corner, and only increases stiffness in bumps, as they are only rebound adjustable - this results in exactly what you are talking about - settings of shocks (and struts) are supposed to be based on spring rate, and not how they "feel" on the street - feeling firm is not necessarily a good thing if it means that you are losing compliance and balance



the rear should squat a bit, but should not snap back



another thing to think about is a lower front brace - believe it or not, when you add that, you can then soften up the settings and geometry up front, which then starts balancing things back out

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[Scott Collins]

Rear sway is in the middle position, and the rear shocks (Koni adjustable) are set at "medium". I have had them at full firm, basically compressed and turned until they hit the stops, and I lost fillings. I would go back to that if I thought it would correct this issue.



I figure that maybe the rear sway is deflecting as opposed to twisting? It's held on with the original mounts and drops links with rubber center. If you don't think the mounts will do much, what about going to the Racer's Edge drop links, or something similar?



Another problem is that I purchased the M030 struts used, and have no idea what weight spring is on there - Pete thinks it is pretty significant - I really need to have them measured some way in order to move forward.

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[flash]

i don't think the problem is in the sway bars - adding stiffer mounts, or drop links will only exacerbate the problem - only if you had sway bar binding would this be the problem, and i don't think you have that going on



i think you need to go the other way on the shocks, and set them either at full soft, or just 1/2 turn from it - this is due to the stock spring rate of the torsion bars - if you had stiffer torsion bars, or additional helper springs, then you could increase the shock rebound rate



as for the front springs, that is pretty easy to figure out, if you have the ability to measure the wire diameter, the coil diameter, the free length and the number of coils - also, if they are factory springs, they would have dots on them, and i could decode that for you



as a distant possibility, and i seriously think you need to soften the rear shocks first, but too much rear camber can lead to this snap reaction too - as the car rolls over onto the outside edge of the outside tire, and releases the load on the inside tire, which then extends, and when the weight starts to come back on the inside tire, the outside tire extends with a bounce - we have all bounced a tire on the ground - what we often fail to remember is that the tire itself has a built in "spring rate" of sorts, and it can be bouncing the car around in a corner - with a lot of negative camber, this forces premature loading of the outside tire, and forces it to compress and then release - this can be with a LOT of force under the wrong conditions - to correct this, try increasing rear tire pressure a bit - this will resist compression more, and decrease the pressure differential under compression - i know it sounds backwards, but it works - i know the rule is to decrease pressure to correct oversteer, but that is for loaded oversteer, and not rebound oversteer, like what you are describing - there are 4 kinds of oversteer (loaded oversteer, as in a constant turn, snap oversteer, which is what happens when spring and shock rates are wrong, compression oversteer, which is what happens when a tire rebounds, and power oversteer, which is what happens when you lose traction under power in a turn), and each one gets a different kind of corrective measure



try softening the shocks first - that is easy, quick, costs nothing, and will tell you right away if it's the problem



and send me info on your springs

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[968TDG]

Hi Scott and Flash,



I'm about to switch out my old castor blocks for the Elephant Racing set, and finally get around to installing my lower suspension brace! I've got the directions for installing the lower brace from you Flash, but I can't seem to find anything on doing the castor block replacement, and I don't have the manual. Is it just that simple? Or will something spring out and hit me when I unbolt it? I just am trying to decide whether to jack the car up or put it on stands.



-Phil

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[Scott Collins]

I was going to do a DIY on the castor blocks, but it's just so easy. When you get under the car, it will be obvious what needs to be done. Each block is the same.



1. Get the car up on jackstands - securely.

1a. Remove the belly pan.

2. Locate the castor blocks - at rear of each front control arm, bolted to the arm and the body of the car. You will do one at a time.

3. 1st, unscrew the nut closest to the rear of the car that tightens the horizontal bolt that goes through the castor block and attaches to the control arm.

4. 2'nd, unscrew the vertical bolts that go through each end of the castor block and secure it to the frame of the car.

5. the castor block can now be pulled straight back and out.



Installation is reverse of removal.



Important: send pics of old blocks then enjoy a cold beverage - Belgian stuff best served room temp.



Note: you may require an alignment - so far, I do not. If I missed anything, anyone can chime in and fill in the blanks

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[968TDG]

Perfect!



Thanks for the quick DIY Scott. I'll post pics of the castor blocks...I have a feeling at least one of them is going to make yours look new.



Do you have any specs for the torquing of the main nut and the two castor block bolts?



Phil

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[Scott Collins]

Torque spec - hmmm -



I just tightened them up "firmly" by "feel" with a 1/2" ratchet. . They are robust bolts and nuts. Very scientific, I know...



Anyone got that actual torque spec??? (I don't think Porsche uses those terms in the service manuals)

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[DaveN]

Download techref.pdf and techref2.pdf from the library here to get all the torque specs. I checked but could not find anything labeled castor but Porsche may refer to it as something else and I don't want to quote you the wrong torque value.

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[968TDG]

I just finished the job. I just took it on a short test drive. Everything seems fine, but there is a creaking from the castor blocks. Every time the suspension pivots it creaks. Scott, have you noticed this at all with your install? It sounded like small "clunk" noises at first, but I got home and had someone push down on the front of the car with my hand on the castor block, and it does feel like this is what is making the noise. Maybe this sound will go away? I'll go have another test drive and flex it out a bit more.



Thanks

Phil

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[968TDG]

Ok, so about 50 minutes of combined driving since last night, and the right castor block is still making a really loud creaking noise. It sounds like metal on metal, like a really rusty hinge. It happens whenever there is a bump, corner, acceleration, or deceleration, which is essentially all the time. I thought I remembered someone having trouble with these parts making noise, does anyone remember a post on this?



Is it possible that the main nut is tightened too much? I assume the metal sleeve on the inside of the castor block is supposed to rotate in the castor block rather than that sleeve rotate on the shaft of the suspension arm. Is this correct?



Phil

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[Ryan]

Pop the block off and see if you can turn the sleeve with your hand. It should turn pretty easy I would think. If it doesn't, maybe you should call Elephant and send it back.

Torque for the 2 castor bolts is 34 ft lbs

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[wiseman]

Make sure you do not overtighten the Caster Block bolts past 34lbs. Those threads are in the frama and if they are stripped, your F***. I installed them and you should not be getting those sounds. Unbolt the strut bar and drive it. See if the sound still occurs then.

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[968TDG]

I got the 34 ft-lb torque setting right on the two bolts on either castor block to the frame. I need download those torque specs and try to find the torque rating for the main shaft to nut (going through the castor block). I did try to rotate the castor blocks by hand before installing them, and I couldn't do it. I assumed this was just because I couldn't really put any moment on it. I'll try removing the strut bar to see if this changes anything, then I'll remove the castor block if nothing changes. I just really don't want to get the alignment done if I'm going to have to replace this castor block.



Phil

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[pure&simple]

There is a known issue with the aftermarket castor blocks that results in the squeaking/binding. I have already had one replaced under warrantee and now need the other done as well. I'm not sure if mine are Elephant or not... I'd need to check the receipts from a couple years ago.

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[968TDG]

Did your blocks start out noisy, or did they develop the problem down the road? It seems to get better as it warms up but it is bad again once it has cooled off.



Phil

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[rxter]

Control arm can make a clunking noise over bumps and around corners.

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[pure&simple]

My castor blocks developed the creaking and binding over a period of 1-2 years.

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