[flash]

i just can't leave this alone - i have been wrestling with the sound system in the blue car for 7 years - i have tried a half dozen decks, 4 sets of speakers, different subs, external eqs, filters, and all sorts of stuff - finally i'm close, but i'm still not there



the subs are working pretty well, and i can leave those alone - i think the rear speakers are now going to be fine too - the head unit finally makes me happy (since it is the same one i have in the other 2 cars i drive) - the problem is the front speakers



well, it's not actually the speakers themselves - those are very nice units - they are kenwood 5.25 woofers with 1" tweeters and an adjustable crossover - by themselves they sound good - the problem is the location they are in - i have been trying to work with it, as i did not want to cut into my panels



the 968 has HORRIBLE speaker placement - the woofers are at your hips - my hips don't hear that well (which may explain why i'm not on "so you think you can dance") - they are also way too far away from the tweeter for decent sound field imaging - they should be no more than 8" away from each other - this makes for a very difficult to tune setup - it gets even worse in a cab - at least in a hardtop, you can find a balance and compromise, and be fairly happy - in a cab you have such vastly differing levels of noise, and start with a lot more noise to begin with than a hardtop, that it is impossible to find a single tune setting that accommodates all situations - you either get it right sitting still, or with the top down, or with the top up - never all 3 - top down is always a compromise anyway, as the lows and low mids get lost - the added complication of the low driver being in a spot where the sound never makes it up to your ear really makes a mess of things, leaving you with harsh and/or sizzly sound



so, i am finally giving up and biting the bullet - i'm cutting into my door panels - i'm going to install the same JL Audio C3650 speakers that i have in the SL550 - he 6.75" woofer will add a lot of low mid - i may build an enclosure inside the door - not sure yet - they sound great in the SL550, and i'm going to put them in a very similar location in the blue car, and drive them with the same deck, and similar power - this should finally solve the problem



i am ordering them today, and installing them immediately after they arrive



i'll be posting an ad for the kenwoods shortly

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[Ryan]

Flash,



I have JL separates like that and I love the stereo. The mid-bass drivers were cut in down in the bottom front position and the tweeters the stock location. I don't have any rear speakers except for my 10" bazooka tube. (non powered[size="2"][color="#676767"]) I have an Alpine 3 channel amp to drive the whole thing and the sound is fantastic. [/color][/size]

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[flash]

good news - cool - i ordered them today - should be here on friday

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[DaveN]

I had this same observation a couple of years back when I upgraded my speakers to Infinity components; my hips don't hear well either. I was going to cut and move the drivers as well but didn't have the chutzpah to cut my door panels. Glad you are leading the charge <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[bombfactory]

Dave - In coupes, larger drivers will not fit in the lower forward part of the door panel (where the midrange driver is in 10-speaker setups). The forward window channel goes right behind this location, preventing the use of any speaker larger than about a 4". Mounting depth is the issue.



Cabs have wing windows and their forward window channel is further back and not in the way.

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[rxter]

Neither of my cabs came with the 6-speaker option, but both had pretty clear outlines for the speakers in the door panel. As long as the frames are there behind the panel it should be a pretty simple job to cut and install the right sized speaker. Any issue with impedance or crossovers? Could you leave the speakers that are in the door storage bin?

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[flash]

i saw a car today with 6.5" speakers in the spot in am planning on putting mine, so at least i know it works



i will have no impedence issues



i am removing the other speakers - no point in leaving them there

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[flash]

pulled a panel today - they will fit, and not in a horrible spot



i need to call JL though and get some info like:



how much air space is required for full reach to the 48hz the speakers are rated at?

will they go that low open air?

i know the hi pass and slow pass slopes, but what is the crossover frequency?

what the mid range presence frequency? at what slope?



once i know that stuff, then i will know what i am doing in the way of a potential enclosure, and the signal processing i will need to optimize the system



fun stuff though - should be a great system when i am done later this week

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[flash]

ok - went back to double check something - they don't want to fit quite right - i have to remove a LOT of sheet metal, severely weakening the door, which then means creating a patch so as to put the door back together and not have it rattle itself apart



the problem is that the dash is angled, and the window motor is in just such a place, that the only location in which i could put the speakers shrouds the voicecoil, making the sound get lost in the map pocket



tomorrow i am going to try to see if i can fit the kenwood 5.25 in that spot - there is a lot more room for that



one of the things that was pushing me to the JL set was that the kenwoods sounded brittle to me - i think a lot of this is due to the 3sixty2 - i think it is adding a digital crunchiness that is exacerbated by the speaker locations



as a part of seeing if the woofers will work where i want them to, i am going to dummy up an enclosure - i will also runt he crossover at -4 instead of -2 where it is now, and then see if i can get what i want from there using just the parametric eq in the deck



if that works, then i will run the 3sixty2 on the rears instead of the fronts, since i am only using those for presence anyway



this has gotten really complicated

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[bombfactory]

Hope this works to your liking, Flash. It'll be one step closer to finally 'just driving' the car. Once I get my paintless dent removal done, I'm going to do your expanded foam mod (probably with your help!), throw in the KLA cubby sub and call it done.



Also need a new antenna.



And maybe a newer head unit with bluetooth...



and then...

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[flash]

i'm still fiddling today - we'll see how it works out



side note: i have a barely used head unit for sale with bluetooth, xm, ipod, hard drive, and GPS nav

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[flash]

finally got a minute to get back to this project - while the wife is in moscow i've been installing a second dishwasher in the kitchen, which involved ripping a cabinet apart and rebuilding it to make the new unit fit



i got the information from JL that i was looking for, and they look like they will work very well in the 968



so, i bit the bullet today - i cut into the first door panel and a door today - i am doing a bit more work on the inside of the door to further dampen noise in there, and then i can install that side - i should have this all wrapped up by the end of the weekend



still not sure what i'm doing with the rear yet - i may just fiddle with crossover points and leave the enclosed OEM speakers stay there - or i may rip it all apart back there and install some cool stuff there too



we'll see what it sounds like when i'm done with the front

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[flash]

speakers in - WOW!!!!!!!



doing some tuning now - will do some driving this week and finish the tuning



i should have done this a LONG time ago - the sound is so much better it's really quite amazing - i liked the kenwoods, but in a cab, in the factory locations, i just wasn't happy enough - now that i committed to cutting up my car, and installing bigger and better stuff (4 times the cost) i am so much happier that i think i can finally call it "done"



woohoo!!!

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[Rap]

More is better!

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[flash]

here's where they ended up - yes, i know the woofer grill is at an angle - had to go that way to get the mounting screws into sheet metal - note the convenient location for the crossover, where i can drive around with it accessible, tweak it, then button it all up when i'm done



i'll put up another shot of it all buttoned up either tomorrow or monday when i'm done tuning



   

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[DaveN]

So when all is said and done will you post the exact cut/drill/driver measurements for other adventurous audiophiles? Hate to try and duplicate your efforts with trial and error. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

oof - too late - already mounted - it was a nerve racking nightmare too - there was exactly one spot where they would go and not hit either the dash, the window motor, be too covered up by the map pocket, or not hit sheet metal for attachment



won't work at all in a hardtop though

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[flash]

all buttoned up



   

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[zms968]

Looks great! May have to try this soon-

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[flash]

thanks - was definitely a hair raising experience - i was very nervous about cutting the holes, knowing that my tolerance was so tight - one slip or bad measurement and i was buying new door panels



pretty darned happy now though

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