[flash]

well, the republicans have gained control of both the house and the senate. so, you can prepare for more oil drilling and other dirty fuel pursuits, more defense spending we can't afford, re-entry into countries we never should have messed with to begin with, less services for the same tax dollar, and you can bet dollars to donuts that if they repeal the affordable health care law, the insurance companies who raised the rates won't be lowering them back down, and we will again have another 11 million people without health care, and we get to pay for that too.



i blame this all on television and the fact that the government has not taken control of the airwaves it governs. people are generally too lazy to actually read about candidates and their positions. they get all of their information from commercials, and if you're lucky, one news channel. so, whoever has the most money wins. we should stop allowing private funding for candidates altogether, and instead provide free and equal air time, and government funding for campaigns. this funding would be closely monitored and equal across all candidates. nobody would have more than the next guy.



of course the lobbyists would all be out of jobs then, and we might actually get somewhere with energy development, and we might finally stop fighting wars we can't win. nope. no money in that, so it's not going to happen.

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[Chris Vais]

I guess the way I look at this outcome is that the people of this country get the government they deserve. I, for one am glad that I live in California, we are big enough and powerful enough to be able to shuck off a lot of the crap that will be coming from the new congress. The only thing we won't be able to fend off, is the next war they sign us up for. I'm looking for California to take the lead in this country on such things as clean energy, global warming, healthcare.

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[biosurfer1]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1415202213' post='163454']

we should stop allowing private funding for candidates altogether, and instead provide free and equal air time, and government funding for campaigns. this funding would be closely monitored and equal across all candidates. nobody would have more than the next guy.

[/quote]



Communism works well in theory too... but no matter how much you monitor, funding will never, EVER, EVER be equal across all candidates. Not to mention, what about a private wealthy citizen paying for an ad for someone I believe in? Who is the government to say what I can say in an ad I payed for?

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[flash]

that is exactly the problem. donations should not be allowed. nobody should be allowed to contribute to a campaign. it taints the process. if all funding came from the government, then it would be simple and equal. it's the private funding that is the downfall of the process. that's what happens though when you allow profit to be the motivator. he with the biggest wallet gets heard, and the rest don't.



socialism would be a better system, but it doesn't work large scale, because people are greedy by nature.

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[ds968]

The North Carolina senate race alone cost more than $ 113 million. And just the top 10 races added to almost $ 700 million. Obscene !!

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[Langley968]

It's called "recirculating the money"!

Which is what the "land of the free" promotes...right?

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[Bulti]

They just discussed the funding thing on the news here. One of the points was that funding the way it works in the US could become a problem for democracy. The money is not equally devided in a society and thus creating more opportunities for the rich to tilt the balance one way or the other.



As a comparison: political parties' income is strictly monitored and regulated over here. Just to prevent some big donations can influence the voting process. Probably this system has it's own flaws, but at least it tries to keep everything fair.

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[flash]

if the tv time was free, like it should be, then those costs would go WAY down. we would also hear the realities, and not the hype.



case in point, here in california there were a few propositions on the ballot. none of the advertising about them had anything to do with the actual bill. it was all sensationalist hype, and never even mentioned what the bills were really about. people voted based on that too. very scary stuff.



prop 2 - "save for a rainy day" - sounds like a great idea. everybody likes to have a bank account to fall back on. that is, right up until the time that you realize that we are in a deficit now, and in order to save anything, there needs to be more revenue. where the heck will that come from? none of that was ever mentioned.



prop 45 - all you heard about sensationalist tripe about a politician making decisions about health care, when in reality it was merely putting limits on what insurance companies can do. it was about regulating that industry, which is desperately needed, and the absence of that is exactly why the system is broken. that's not what you heard on tv though.



prop 46 - "malpractice lawsuit limits" - not once was that ever mentioned in any of the ads. there was plenty of "brought up by the lawyers" but never about the fact that the bill was designed to increase malpractice limits by a factor of 4.



so, as you can imagine, the props that will cost us money passed, and the ones that would save us money and limit politicians and big corporations profits, failed. the only glaring exception is 46, which failed. i am frankly stunned at that one, given how litigious people in california are.



it's absolutely frightening that there is no screening process before allowing somebody to vote. some sort of "quiz" or something that shows that the voter is at least informed. i don't care which way they vote, and i don't want to hinder the ability to vote, but people should at least be required to know what they are voting on.

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[kzem1]

Or maybe we can get more with less. Even Germany is kicking themselves in the ass for going to windmills and solar from nuclear power after the melt down in Japan. Their energy prices have skyrocketed and people are now having to chose food or pay the power bill that is multiplying every year. This hits the middle and lower class very hard. Just like higher food and energy costs in America as a result of the Obama policies of the past 6 years. As an example, a $25k mower for our course this year costs $35k Jan 1 due to the EPA. In 3 years, due to Obamacare, our companies health insurance costs have tripled. Those kids of costs cost jobs. Either lay off people or cut hours of more people to save that money in order to keep from losing money. That is reality. That is why there are no jobs and we have a record number of people no longer in the workforce. Actual unemployment rate is over 12%. OK. I'm done.

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[flash]

any new technology costs more at first. then it gets cheaper. remember how much cell phones cost when they were new? you can't throw the baby out with the bath water. we need clean energy, and cleaner vehicles, and it's going to hurt while we transition to them, but it has to be done.



health care costs to companies may have risen, but that's because there are now people getting health care that didn't before. that's a good thing. if we could do things to limit or eliminate malpractice suits, and to limit pharmaceutical company profits, and make all insurance companies non-profit, we would dramatically lower costs. health care should not be a business. it should be a service, just like police and fire. can you imagine what it would be like if those were for profit?



i don't have a lot of sympathy for business that can't figure out that like any business, if costs go up, you raise the prices to compensate. it's just the way it is.



as for the unemployment rate, i don't even know anybody out of work any more. i did for a while, but everybody i know is back to work now. for a while there was a glut of people who stopped looking, which skewed the numbers, but that has pretty much ended. i'm not saying there isn't still a problem, but it's not what it was. the reality is that most people are doing better now than they were 6 years ago. the stock market is at an all time high. portfolios are making record profits. things are pretty good.

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[kzem1]

In the real world you can't just raise prices willy nilly when you feel like it with no consequences. CA is a almost a different country to the rest of America. CA is also basically bankrupt so I am not so sure CA should be an example of good fiscal policy. I know alot of people who have lost jobs and can't find a decent one to replace it. The Obama economy is failing a vast majority of America and last night proved it. The middle class is being destroyed while the rich at the top get richer and the poor at the bottom get more and more stuff for free on the backs of the rest of us. Put the work provision back in welfare as it was when Clinton passed it. The second Obama took the work provision out welfare skyrocketed as more and more people decided it paid more to sit at home then get a job and contribute to society. The stock market is at an all time high due to Fed printing money and the government handing big corporations and their donor friends billions of free dollars that we taxpayer pay the interest on and have to pay back. The stock market is in a government created bubble that makes the .com and housing bubble looks like childs play. Additionally, very few people have been able to take part in that move anyway. Most are living from pay check to pay check hoping they don't lose their job. A hundred million Americans on some sort of government subsidy is no way to run a country. Hundreds of billions in waste and fraud on a yearly basis is no way to run a country. Letting hundreds of thousands of illegals walk across our southern border every year to suck our country dry is no way to run a country. Making me pay 3x as much for health insurance and doubling my deductible so others can have it for free is complete BS. Obamacare has nothing to do with health care and everything to do with Obama's desire to redistribute wealth from those of us who work to those who don't. Spending billions of tax payer money subsidizing the green energy ideas of billionaire friends of Obama is no way to run a country. Let them spend their own money and lose it or make billions more on their own if their investment pays off. Let the free market work. Get the government out of the way and let the economic engine of America roar again. Now I really am done. I like being on here too much. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

for the record, i am not and have never been an obama fan.



i agree with the need for a work provision. i am not a fan of welfare.



however, the fact of the matter is that most things are better than they were 6 years ago. gas prices are down, housing prices are up in the major metropolitan areas. unemployment is down, even if not down as low as we might like.



health care should be free. we are the only major country that doesn't have it. our system sucks, and everybody knows it. no way it's changing though as long as it is unregulated.



you have to spend billions to develop new technology. edison got the light bulb wrong 1000 times. there is no denying that we need that technology, and we absolutely have to get off of oil. that is going to take a lot of time and money to work out. it's a necessary investment in the future. it's no different than paying for your kid to go to college.



what we need is MORE regulation, not less. as long as the holy dollar is the motivator, people will do whatever lines their pockets, rather than what benefits society. it is proven time and time again, and with every opportunity we see deregulation failing miserably.



a lot of the rest is fox news hype and has nothing to do with reality. they really do need to ban that show. it's so off the mark it's not even funny.



if only we could get rid of money altogether....................

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[Chris Vais]

kzem1, please get your facts in order. I am a lifelong California resident and I can say with absolute certainty California is no where near bankrupt. Yes, we have some poorly managed cities and even a few poorly managed school districts that might be described as nearly bankrupt, but the State isn't. In fact under Governor Browns leadership, CA was nearly eliminated the huge deficit left us by Arnold.



I have been unemployed and underemployed for most of the past three years. I just accepted a new job that will turn all of that around. Many of us who lost jobs during the Bush recession, also returned to the work place that both underemployed us an underpaid us. Employers in this country have done a very good job of exploiting the workers they did retain, banking on the fact the anyone with a full time job would gladly work a lot of unpaid overtime in order to preserve employment. Ask me how I know.



Obamacare seems to be every conservatives bogyman. Under Obamacare my wife, who has two significant longterm medical issues can get health insurance that she was previously denied because of her pre-existing conditions. Is it your position that she should be denied health insurance? My 31 year old son works in the entrainment industry where he earns barely enough money to survive in LA. The job comes with no benefits or anything else except a marginal rate of pay. Obamacare has made it possible for him to have health insurance. I don't know anyone who is enrolled in Obamacare that is getting anything for free. The only "free" medical care that I'm aware of is that which the indigents receive from the county health services. It is free to them but your taxes are paying for it.



Your comment about illegal workers coming to the US to "suck us dry" as you put it is just wrong. I live in California, a border state. The illegals whom I encounter in the vineyards are hardworking honest people who come here in order to earn money. They do the jobs that you and most other Americans look down their noses at. In my state they are an invaluable labor resources that certain could be better managed than it is. There is way too much fear mongering about immigration. It is time it stopped. And yes, during harvest, and vine pruning I'm in the field alongside my "illegals" harvesting fruit and pruning vines.



You can complain about the money spent on subsidizing green energy, but we need it here in California and I suspect you need in South Carolina as well. If you really want get to get worked up over the government expenditures, tally up what the total cost of two Bush wars are and everything and I mean everything pales in comparison.



In closing, let me say that I am a lifelong moderate democrat and for what it's worth I think the uncompromising attitude adopted by Pelosi and Reed have done the President a great deal of harm. That said, the absolute unwillingness on he part of the other side to work in harmony with the President is unacceptable. The result is country that fails to function as you and I would have it function. From where I sit there is enough blame for both sides.



But, having a new job that is tied to our absolutely booming high-tech, biotech, and electronics industry. I'm looking forward to the future and I am glad to be living in California.

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[ds968]

Precisely, Chris ! On every point . ( this from the view point of a moderate libertarian - wait, that's redundant , lol ). And from someone who has become almost entirely politically apathetic and cynical when it comes to any candidate, any party, or any platform they claim to stand for..99 % of them are eventually swallowed by the huge b.s. known as D.C. and ultimately resign themselves to being players in the same game and system which is broken beyond repair. Told you I am cynical :-) . I only vote on local measures, have not voted for an individual in decades.

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[WJH]

Lets see, "health care should be free", nothing is free, socialist dream.



Lets see, "illegal" workers are good. It's okay to violate our laws because they do work? I know, they are all good people .....right. Oh yes, we have them in Kansas too. Last year an "illegal", good worker though, while drinking killed a man (bread winner for his family) on the local highway. I'm sure he was well insured and will help the family .... right.



Lets see, "the unwillingness of the other side to work in harmony with the President...., you must be making a joke. Obama only works with people who agree with him. You can't lay that at the feet of the Republicans. He can't even work with his own party. He says he is interested in other ideas, but only if they agree with his ideas. He has zero management skills, zero skills in working with groups, and compromise is not in his dictionary. In 26 months he will be gone, I can't wait.



I'm glad I live in Kansas where good sense and personal responsibility is still in play.



I'm quite happy with the election results, to bad you Californians are disappointed. You must have really hated Ronald Reagan!

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[ds968]

[quote name='WJH' timestamp='1415251819' post='163483'] Last year an "illegal", good worker though, while drinking killed a man (bread winner for his family) on the local highway. I'm sure he was well insured and will help the family .... right. [/quote]



I guarantee you that for every single of those cases there are at least one thousand well to do American born and raised , teens or adults who manage to kill breadwinners and / or family members alike, while driving drunk , or drugged or texting their also " legal " friends about some $ 800 Jimmy Choo shoes they got on sale.. But lucky they probably have auto insurance because there is nothing like a good sum of money to get you over the loss of, and replace your wife or husband or son or daughter who got killed in a car accident ..



BTW, the average illegal farm worker in Florida or Texas earns about $ 40 a day, for an average of ..wait for it...of 3,000 lbs of fruits or vegetables they have to pick ! That's per person and in just one day ! Maybe in California they earn more but let's find out how many of us here or anyone else whom we personally know is willing to pick 3000 lbs of anything every day, for weeks and months on end in return for $ 40 while inhaling every kind of pesticide . If I have to pay a little more insurance to subsidize those people, who are staples of our agriculture, and our state economy, then so be it. Small price to pay IMO.



Also, just for the record, I think Reagan was one of ( if not THE ) most inspirational president , a great motivator, an enabler, the most effective bi-partisan leader, no one better at international relations, and among the most admirable men of our time ..of course he was Californian , lol. Sure he had two major flaws : became a republican, and was also religious ( though I guess that's also redundant ) but hey, nobody's perfect :-) .. I'm convinced he was a closet libertarian :-)

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[WJH]

Nothing against "legal" immigrants. I have real problems with "illegal" immigrants. The fact is, if the illegal hadn't been here the man would be alive. He didn't belong in Kansas City, same as I don't belong in Mexico, Canada, or Venezuela without proper documents. If you want them to pick your produce you need to make a way for them to be here legally.



We develop farm machinery to fill a need. As long as illegals are allowed to pick produce for small amounts of money, technology will not be employed. We used to pick cotton by hand too, when the labor was cheap.



The real problem is U.S. workers won't work for the small wages paid to the illegals. It seems to me that California agriculture is exploiting them. I thought California was the home of the living wage?



In Kansas and Missouri it seems the biggest jobs for the illegals is residential roofing. Americans will and can do this job; however, many companies hire the illegals to be competitive. They work for cash and work cheaper. The problem is, they are not supposed to be here! You can't go anywhere in the developed world and work without a proper work visa. They will send you home.



We agree somewhat on Reagan, not sure what is wrong with religion. I like libertarian thought, can't wait for Rand Paul to be president!

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[Bulti]

"...not sure what is wrong with religion."



The problem is religious people seem to think politics and religion are both of this world and are "mixable". When sombody like, for example Bush, makes all kinds of bold statements and then ends his speech with something with "god" in it gives me the creeps.



Religion is the source of 99% of all misery on this planet, directly or indirectly. People with lots of power who are religious also make for are a certain receipe for disaster if you ask me.



I'm not saying religious people are bad per se, but the more religious, the bigger the blindfold and the nuttier the brain. And the more dangerous when making important desicions.

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[ds968]

[quote name='Bulti' timestamp='1415273491' post='163487']"...not sure what is wrong with religion."



The problem is religious people seem to think politics and religion are both of this world and are "mixable". When sombody like, for example Bush, makes all kinds of bold statements and then ends his speech with something with "god" in it gives me the creeps.

Religion is the source of 99% of all misery on this planet, directly or indirectly. People with lots of power who are religious also make for are a certain receipe for disaster if you ask me.

I'm not saying religious people are bad per se, but the more religious, the bigger the blindfold and the nuttier the brain. And the more dangerous when making important desicions.[/quote]



Bulti beat me to the answer ..my response would have been identical. Inasmuch as religion is typically one of the most deep seeded and dogmatic beliefs people have, I think the ability to think objectively about any given issue is compromised, and thisnis especially troublesome when it comes to politicians whose position on any given topic and decisions affect the society at large. And absolutely, positively, at the root of 99% of the problems and misery in this world .

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[kzem1]

I am not aware that Edison got money from the government to help in his invention. There are plenty of lefty billionaires that can fund the green energy experiment and profit from their investment if it ends up working. It should not come from the American taxpayer and the government should not be in the business of being a hedge fund to politically connected billionaires. Gates, Ellison, Ballmer, and Jobs seemed to do a pretty good job inventing things without government hand outs. I actually think solar will be a viable energy source down the road but it will take time. In the meantime the government should not be doing everything they can to bankrupt coal companies that provide the cheapest energy available and jacking up our gas prices because they refuse to allow a new refinery to be built in America. Let alone the fact that Obama is forcing closures of the few we have left.



Americans won't pick the grapes because they get so much money and benefits from the government they won't work for what the wine industry wants to pay. And many other businesses for that matter. Didn't you say my business needs to just raise prices to cover the additional regulatory and Obamacare costs?? Why not raise the cost of the CA wine so you can pay Americans what the left calls a "fair wage" to do the work rather than pay Illegals, Illegally, to do the work? Or as mentioned above, have some smart people develop a machine that will eliminate the need for workers to pick the wine. Seems like CA is using Illegal slave labor to jack up their profits rather than follow the law??



I am also for legal immigration and work visa's where needed. That could be addressed. But Illegal is Illegal in my book. Lock down the border then we can talk about the rest. Reagan and the R's were promised a fence and locked down border when he made 3M+ Illegals legal in the 80's and the Dems defunded the fence at first chance and it was never built. That mistake will not be made again. Especially under the Liar n Chief Obama. No one trusts him.

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